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Beginners Guide to Team Matches

#1 User is offline   hallway 

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Posted 2003-August-09, 14:37

Hi All

Could we please have a Beginners Guide to Team Matches .

It would seem to me that when playing in a Team Match one would need to apply a different approach to bidding ??

I'm not quite sure I understand how the scoring works :-

Some useful guidelines would be much appreciated.

Thanks
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#2 User is offline   csdenmark 

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Posted 2003-August-09, 15:19

Here you will find 2 links with strategies and scoring regarding team matches IMP/Matchpoints



http://groups.msn.co...ment/intro.msnw
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#3 User is offline   Laird 

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Posted 2003-August-09, 23:57

Hi Claus

This seems a very impressive web site. However a few questions...

Does this in anyway conflict with what Fred is trying to do on this BBO site?

The time scale 20th Aug...is this simply to allow a group of interested players to be formed so the ladder can commence?

Will another opportunity arrise later as the timing may not be opportune for many esp in the northern hemisphere with holidays etc?

All the structure seems to be in place its a wonder that experienced players on this site have not taken it up?

There is of course the current elimination competition taking place for those interested in playing against the Polish Champion players, does this pose an area of conflict?

I'm sure that many who play here on BBO may feel a sense of belonging to a unique site and would not like, through ignorance, to undermine in any way what Fred has achieved here. This has to be explained in laymans terms for people such as me to be interested.

Would you be playing against other BBO members only or against other unknown players who may not have the same standard of friendly behaviour that Fred encourages on this site?

I,m sure there may be other questions that others may have and if you feel able to answer them then this may go some way to reducing some inherent fears?

Kind regards

John
UDCA...'You take the High Road an I'll take the Low Road'...
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#4 User is offline   csdenmark 

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Posted 2003-August-10, 02:46

Quote


1) Does this in anyway conflict with what Fred is trying to do on this BBO site?

2) The time scale 20th Aug...is this simply to allow a group of interested players to be formed so the ladder can commence?

3) Will another opportunity arrise later as the timing may not be opportune for many esp in the northern hemisphere with holidays etc?

4) All the structure seems to be in place its a wonder that experienced players on this site have not taken it up?

5) There is of course the current elimination competition taking place for those interested in playing against the Polish Champion players, does this pose an area of conflict?

6) I'm sure that many who play here on BBO may feel a sense of belonging to a unique site and would not like, through ignorance, to undermine in any way what Fred has achieved here. This has to be explained in laymans terms for people such as me to be interested.

7/ Would you be playing against other BBO members only or against other unknown players who may not have the same standard of friendly behaviour that Fred encourages on this site?

I,m sure there may be other questions that others may have and if you feel able to answer them then this may go some way to reducing some inherent fears?

Kind regards

John


Hi John - I will try to answer your questions - hope all, else come back please!

Quote

1) Does this in anyway conflict with what Fred is trying to do on this BBO site?

No of course not. The opposite is the case -it is supporting what BBO is doing. Several times Fred have asked for ressources outside his own staff - they are short of capacity. Last I saw such a statement was regarding convention cards. He asked for some to produce default cards. I offered mine - but sad to say - nobody seems interested to play acc. to cc - they prefer to deal with the constant basic problems alerting all bids and all that confusion

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2) The time scale 20th Aug...is this simply to allow a group of interested players to be formed so the ladder can commence?

Several hundreds have looked into the site. I assume they are basically interested in such kind of tournaments. They are informed nothing happens unless they sign up for membership and post some information(player/pair search - team-search or team registration) they do nothing. I am tired of that. Therefore I have decided to redraw my offer unless the interest materializes into something. Some like to discuss how to do things differently - very well lets do so - but I only like to discuss with those who have comitted themselves. I think this structure will do for a start and then we quickly will be much wiser - and this structure is not complicated to modify.

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3) Will another opportunity arrise later as the timing may not be opportune for many esp in the northern hemisphere with holidays etc?

If this community is to be deleted - it looks right now so by 20th August - I certainly hope somebody else will come up with something. I think the interest is there! - Nobody knows of course!

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4) All the structure seems to be in place its a wonder that experienced players on this site have not taken it up?

My wonders are private and not for public statements

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5) There is of course the current elimination competition taking place for those interested in playing against the Polish Champion players, does this pose an area of conflict?

You and many others have time for play on BBO - time for reading on Forum - time for posting messages on Forum. Lack of time is not the reason! In a week 40 teams will be knock-outed of the polish tournament after 1 match only - and then what? Lack of time is not the reason for not spending 5 minutes taking care of your options

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6) I'm sure that many who play here on BBO may feel a sense of belonging to a unique site and would not like, through ignorance, to undermine in any way what Fred has achieved here. This has to be explained in laymans terms for people such as me to be interested.

Very well! I have understood things in that way that one of the goals for BBO are to be able to help enhancing the quality of bridge play by ordinary people. Tournaments of different kinds is one way among others for such!

Quote

7) Would you be playing against other BBO members only or against other unknown players who may not have the same standard of friendly behaviour that Fred encourages on this site?

There is no difference between players who have already signed up for BBO and those who haven't done so yet. A great part of the present BBO-members are daily breaking the standard code of conduct(just look at the mails for bridgebase@abuse.com or ask the yellow ones) - you have noticed too I am sure John!


Hope this was an answer! - Lastly here the link below - and for those who are interested please note! Unless you do something there - the site will soon be destroyed.



More here - just register and then we start!

http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAJgFjTTIcx5eCvevZF9bQq6*OLkej8q*uvY0eooMUhu0WkMLTg Pair- and team- tournaments http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAJgFjTTIcx5eCvevZF9bQq6*OLkej8q*uvY0eooMUhu0WkMLTg




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#5 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2003-August-10, 10:33

Quote

Could we please have a Beginners Guide to Team Matches .

It would seem to me that when playing in a Team Match one would need to apply a different approach to bidding ??


Hi,

Team match is indeed a bit different than playing pairs. The scoring is in IMPs which represent the difference between the scores at the 2 tables. Since your team plays EW at table 1 and NS at table 2 you need to score as good as your opponents do, because the results are decreased by each other. That means you may 'never' mis a game when it can be made, because that gives +300 or +500 which is a lot of IMPs (I don't know exactly how much)! That's why you'll bid more agressive and play very tight games.
If you want to try a slam, you should be at least 60% certain that it can be made. Same thing here, but a bit extra dangerous: say at table 1 opponents make 4S+1, and you make 6S-1 (red), that means 650+100=750 points for the opponents, which is really a lot of IMP's. You won't be able to catch that very easilly!

Games are important, for slams you should be certain that you'll make them.

What about part scores? It's allways safer to play 2m (minor) than 1NT with an 8-card fit. You never know how the cards are dealt, so you it would be a disaster if you go -1 in 1NT and at the other table they play 2D just made (= 140 point = some IMPs loss). In pairs on the other hand, you'll play 1NT in case it's 1NT+1... In teams, 10 points difference is 0 IMP, 30 points is 1 IMP, not a big loss.

If you have to play (partscore, game or slam) you'll try to make the contract with as much security as possible. You won't concentrate on overtricks (unless you have the 100% sure possibility that you'll make the contract) but try to be able to handle 4-1 distribution of trump and other things that could go wrong. Making the contract has the highest priority. That's why you should sometimes give away a trick that you don't have to lose, just in case (example: 4 tricks needed from AKQxx (dummy) and xxx you should play 2 small cards first if you have no entries in dummy left, just in case one of opponents has a 4-card). There are very much articles about safety plays of certain suits!

If opponents play a contract, you'll sometimes give away 1 or 2 tricks because it's very important that they don't make their contract. If there's only 1 (realistic/possible) way to get a contract down, you should go for it and don't mind about the extra tricks opponents get from you if it goes wrong. Remember: if you score at your table, and your teammates score at their table, you're making a difference. If you partner has no HCPs left, you don't hope he has a certain King, and you play to let them make as few tricks as possible.

So:
- bid agressive to games, carefull to slam
- try to play partscores in trump if you have an 8-card fit
- try to make your contract with the highest probability possible, don't mind about overtricks you give away
- try to get opponents one down, whatever it costs
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#6 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2003-August-10, 16:00

Quote

That means you may 'never' miss a game when it can be made, because that gives +300 or +500 which is a lot of IMPs (I don't know exactly how much)!

It's actually 250/450 difference (because of partscore bonus), if you are missing game by being a level too low. That's 6 imps NV, 10 imps vul. If you are in game and going down, while the other team makes the game, it's 10 imps NV, 13 imps vul.

Quote

That's why you'll bid more aggressive and play very tight games.

Vulnerable, anyway. NV you still want to have around 46% chance of making.

Quote

If you want to try a slam, you should be at least 60% certain that it can be made. Same thing here, but a bit extra dangerous: say at table 1 opponents make 4S+1, and you make 6S-1 (red), that means 650+100=750 points for the opponents, which is really a lot of IMP's. You won't be able to catch that very easilly!

This is wrong. For small slams, > 50% is enough; it doesn't have to be 60%. A vulnerable small slam gains 750 (1430 vs. 680), cancelling out the loss if it goes down 1. Missing a slam is also a lot of IMPs (13 vul, 11 NV). Tactics here are basically the same as MP (except that you often select safer 6c/6d contracts rather than 6nt).

It's the grand slams you have to be conservative about bidding. You need 57% if you are 100% certain the other team will reach the small slam, but much, much higher (like 80+%) if there is a reasonable chance they will stop in game. At MP > 50% grands are good if everyone will be in the small, again much higher if a portion of the field will miss the slam.

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What about part scores? It's allways safer to play 2m (minor) than 1NT with an 8-card fit. You never know how the cards are dealt, so you it would be a disaster if you go -1 in 1NT and at the other table they play 2D just made

This one is tricky against good opponents who balance with great frequency -- most of the time pulling to 2m means you eventually get to defend 2M or play 3m. A common situation is 1nt & 2m by you both make, but 2M by them makes and 3m goes down. So sometimes you are better off just leaving 1nt in even if you think 2m will be a little safer.

Main things to concentrate on at IMPs rather than MP:
- be aggressive in bidding vul games
- making or breaking a contract is worth a lot more than overtricks
- don't sacrifice (at any level) too often without a sure thing because it won't usually gain you much and is disastrous if you could beat them.
- don't double their partials into game unless you think you are beating them 2 tricks or more.

Also keep in mind it's possible to set up team matches with MP scoring, known as "board-a-match", or BAM. Then you apply tactics similar to MP tactics, except you assume good "field protection" from your teammates.

Also, here on BBO, in the main bridge club pair IMPS seems to be a lot more common than pair MP (maybe just because of the default software settings?). Pair IMPs requires similar strategy changes as team IMPs.
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#7 User is offline   csdenmark 

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Posted 2003-August-11, 05:04


I have been asked not to cancel the initiave and not to destroy the WEB-site set-up for handling of team-tournaments. Very well - maybe it is only people are lost of what to do! But still it is so of course - interested persons must register in order to achieve anything. No registrations will destroy the initiative.

I now try to write better information on how to start. Signing up for membership of the community and after that register a player will mostly be basic. This link will lead you directly to this:

http://groups.msn.co...ament/help.msnw

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#8 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2003-August-11, 09:04

You know I'd love to see the GUI have the IMP conversion chart to help aid in the bidding...I have to use an old ACBL CC to get all the mathematics right!!
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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#9 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2003-August-12, 11:57

Hi friends :)
I like simple explanations.
While playing MP pairs you have only 1 partner, so if you make a terrible mistake, it will be under question can he beat you or can you run form him sucsessfully ;D
Playing team match is much more complicated, after such a mistake. Except that same position about the partner, the other pair at least will be looking at you, as if you have taken their dinner. If they become aggressive then you will need a good running skill to avoid troubles ;)
Conclusion: You must be much more careful while playing team matches ::).
Misho
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