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Pass on partner's 1 minor when void

#1 User is offline   t3tris 

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Posted 2021-April-18, 16:21

Hi!
I have a question that I failed to find an answer to. Let's say me and my partner use SAYC.
I have a hand (AQ96 K102 AJ6 A62), my partner have (K32 Q764 - 1097543).
I opened 1 (which was the root of all the evil of course, since I should've open 1 with 4333 and leave diamonds opening for a rare 4432 distribution only). My partner passed and so did the opponents, so I played 1 with 3 trumps.
Let's skip the part when I failed to open the bidding properly - is pass really a proper answer when you're void on partner's opening minor and lack only 1 point to sell the 4 hearts? Or should you rather "cheat" one point in order not to end up where we ended up?
Thanks!
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#2 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-April-18, 16:39

You're damned if you do it and you're damned if you don't.

With this hand I would bid, though. With five points, partner has enough to survive in case of a 3 or 2NT rebid. Besides, if you have a heart fit, you may even have game.

With the same hand and (say) just two points, I think it's best to pass. Opps might balance and then your partner is happy that he didn't promise you some points he doesn't have.

With a very weak hand (say two points), the considerations are:
- opener might have some 16-17 points with long diamonds. 1 is makeable but 3 is not.
- opener might have 12-14 balanced. 1 may be a silly contract but opps probably have game. And you can always escape after 1 gets doubled.
- opener might have 18-19 balanced. 1 is a silly contract, but so is 2NT, and there's no way you can get to 1NT (unless you pass and opps balance)
- opener might have a strong hand with a heart fit. He will bid 4 which probably doesn't make and may well get doubled (which 1 hasn't been so far, and if it does, partner can still bid 2)

So I would bid with 4-5 points, but pass with 0-3.

Also consider this: It makes things a lot easier if opener can trust that responder has (5)6+ points when he makes a response. If opener starts catering to responder having bid with less, and responder starts jumping in next round with 8-9 points because he knows that opener otherwise fears he might have nothing, then you are messing up the whole bidding system. This causes a lot of stress and awkwardness on the vast majority of hands where responder actually has normal values for the response. It's not worth it.

So just don't worry. Responder might on occasion take some liberty with 4 points, but it has to be a clear partnership understanding that neither partner caters to it. Just assume that a response always has the values it shows.
Can't have a baby if you do it contraclockwise! --- Jlall
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#3 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-April-18, 17:16

On a really bad day, partner has AQJx, A, xxxx, AKxx or A, AKJx, xxxx, AKxx and you just missed a grand, I pretty much agree with everything Helene says although I might respond on some 3 counts.
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#4 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-April-18, 18:45

Modern style is to always respond to 1m with a 5 count...often with less, even,
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#5 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-April-19, 08:13

View Postt3tris, on 2021-April-18, 16:21, said:

I have a hand (AQ96 K102 AJ6 A62), my partner have (K32 Q764 - 1097543).
I opened 1 (which was the root of all the evil of course, since I should've open 1 with 4333 and leave diamonds opening for a rare 4432 distribution only). My partner passed and so did the opponents, so I played 1 with 3 trumps.


at least you are honest. what lead would you prefer to your hand or ? but also so, you should have opened 1 with 4333 even with xxx. the other reason is that also gives the opposition the chance to balance with 1 if partner passes, if opps do not have major suits then there are more like to balance at one level with than at the two level with . 3-0 fit not good, but partner should not pass with a void so not all your fault.
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#6 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-April-20, 09:37

On these hands (weak as responder and short in partner's suit) it saves torturing yourself if you adopt a style and stick to it. Sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, but that's life. (I'm a bidder).
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#7 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-April-20, 18:40

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-April-20, 09:37, said:

On these hands (weak as responder and short in partner's suit) it saves torturing yourself if you adopt a style and stick to it. Sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't, but that's life. (I'm a bidder).


Douglas offers good advice.

You might also consider that after a 1H response there are more rebids that improve the contract than detract - a heart raise, 1S, and 2C - and optimism is more fun than pessimism!
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#8 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-21, 02:45

Others already pointed out all factors for evaluating. I'd like to add that slightly non-SAYC systems, in particular some form of balanced club, unbalanced diamond (which I'd personally argue you can slap on SAYC or 2/1 without changing other parts of your system), have systematic solutions for problems like this. Arguably having a partnership agreement in SAYC is also a systematic solution.
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 09:24

If you slap that on SAYC, it's no longer SAYC. Nothing wrong with that, just don't call it SAYC.
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