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what convention is this 3 club bid

#21 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-April-27, 11:44

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-April-24, 03:34, said:

Ghestem is the number one cause of director headaches in the Netherlands, to the point that I have heard directors say they always rule against the pair that had a Ghestem misunderstanding, no matter the situation. In fact, in one tournament there was a specific Ghestem clause added to the list of tournament rules, warning us that they would be merciless. So use it at your own peril. Misunderstandings like this are very common.


If the Dutch are so absent-minded, that explains why my father moved to England. He always said he was on his way to Canada but never made it there. Poor old fellow probably forgot where he was going...
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#22 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-April-27, 12:30

View Postmycroft, on 2021-April-25, 09:53, said:

Of course. But only some conventions don't come up often enough to be instinctive, or "sound" too much like natural to flag the reaction. One of these leads to "oops, forgot" once, maybe twice, then you're comfortable; both is scary. Most conventions, of course, are common enough, or "obvious" enough, that they aren't forgotten (like Stayman).

I tell people they will forgot all of these once while they're learning, and (usually) never again:
  • support doubles
  • Drury
  • Lebensohl/reverses or doubles of weak 2s
  • XYZ/NT

And examples of things that sound natural:
  • 1-1; 1-2 (again, XYZ)
  • maximal overcall double

Examples of both:
  • 2NT-3NT where 3 is a transfer
  • (1)-3 Ghestem
  • Kickback (esp. in auctions that start 1-1 or the like)



I wish all my partners learned not to forget XYZ as easily as your people :)
There are some even more common examples, though.
Many splinter agreements, in particular 1-4, not to mention the ultra-natural sounding 1NT-2NT as transfer to diamonds (which generates a lot more confusion and Director calls than Ghestem, in my experience).
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#23 User is offline   morecharac 

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Posted 2021-April-27, 21:15

View Postmycroft, on 2021-April-25, 09:53, said:

Of course. But only some conventions don't come up often enough to be instinctive, or "sound" too much like natural to flag the reaction. One of these leads to "oops, forgot" once, maybe twice, then you're comfortable; both is scary. Most conventions, of course, are common enough, or "obvious" enough, that they aren't forgotten (like Stayman).

Drury

Or, as we called it, Twice-Forgotten Drury.
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#24 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-April-27, 22:16

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-April-27, 11:44, said:

If the Dutch are so absent-minded, that explains why my father moved to England. He always said he was on his way to Canada but never made it there. Poor old fellow probably forgot where he was going...

To be fair, it is really difficult to keep up with different partner's constantly changing systems. Last week I played Split-Range Michaels with Ingrid and constructive Ghestem with Henk, this week I think I play Roman Overcalls with Ingrid and Overcall Structure with Henk but maybe it was the other way round. The alert rules changed last week also, by the way.

In England and New Zealand, all my partners play stone-age Acol just like their parents did, so we don't have so many system forgets.
Can't have a baby if you do it contraclockwise! --- Jlall
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