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Partner reopens, matchpoints

Poll: Partner reopens, matchpoints (29 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your call

  1. Pass (16 votes [55.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.17%

  2. 2S (1 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  3. 2NT (12 votes [41.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.38%

  4. something else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 06:38

Matchpoints, white against red.

Q
QJ8x
98xx
A76x

p - p - 1H - 1S
2H - p - p - Dbl
p - ??
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 12:20

I would pass, it's not like 2H showed a strong belief that 2H was making, it just shows 3 hearts and at least about 6 points. Opposite 51(43) I am sure that defending is right on average, which is partner's most likely shape. If partner is 6133 and didn't bid 2S then he has good minor cards and will lead a spade, so again I'm sure that defending is right on average. If partner is 5044 I'm sure that defending is probably wrong, but it's not a horribly losing position, so I'll take the chance.
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#3 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 12:26

Obv pass
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#4 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 20:31

cant pass too risky--there are far to many ways
my hand can be limited to 2 tricks on defense
and that requires 4 tricks from partner to set them.
P did not x to begin with they overcalled and made a
balancing TOX. Hard to imagine 4 tricks from p with
this bidding.

If my partnershipe plays 2n here to show the minors
(my preference) I will bid that. If not I will
gamble on 3c hoping the opps take the push to 3h.
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 06:06

Partner has something like K10xxx x AK10 Q10xx. Almost the entire field is in 3C making so if you beat 2HX you get a true top and if not you get a true zero. At the table where I was watching 2HX was made after suboptimal defense.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 11:22

 han, on 2012-April-22, 06:06, said:

Partner has something like K10xxx x AK10 Q10xx. Almost the entire field is in 3C making so if you beat 2HX you get a true top and if not you get a true zero. At the table where I was watching 2HX was made after suboptimal defense.


life in the fast lane
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#7 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 14:35

I have never played in a field where everyone would be in clubs making the same number of tricks on this kind of hand, though maybe such events exist. Someone who is in contention to win an event should expect their matchpoints for playing 3 would be well over 50%.
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#8 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-23, 03:35

With an argument like that you can just stay at home and not play at all.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#9 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-April-24, 20:09

 nigel_k, on 2012-April-22, 14:35, said:

I have never played in a field where everyone would be in clubs making the same number of tricks on this kind of hand, though maybe such events exist. Someone who is in contention to win an event should expect their matchpoints for playing 3 would be well over 50%.

Well, of course I would play better than the field in 3, and expect to score 65%. But of course I would also find the correct defense against 2X, for 95%.

More seriously, I don't think this is the right way to think about this problem. It is not clear at all where the field will be - maybe RHO had a borderline 2H raise and the field is playing 1N or 2. If the field is weak, many won't find partner's obvious reopening double and will be defending 2 undoubled. Even if the field reopens, many in our position may actually pass; if 2X is just down one, then good luck scoring better than 50% in 3.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 02:44

Part of the right way to think about this problem is to ask yourself "What am I going to bid?" If you bid 2NT, you risk playing a horrible 3 opposite a 6133.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 03:08

 gnasher, on 2012-April-25, 02:44, said:

Part of the right way to think about this problem is to ask yourself "What am I going to bid?" If you bid 2NT, you risk playing a horrible 3 opposite a 6133.

Would you really reopen with DBL holding 6133?
Of course you would if the majors were reversed, you bidding s and they have a fit, but here?
I am not sure what the right way to think about this problem is.
All depends on your agreements and your partner's tendencies. Does he show a good hand?
Since I like my partner to contend such contracts in the pass-out seat, I probably bid 2NT.
Maybe they take the push and will bid 3. In my experience they often do.

Rainer Herrmann
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#12 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 03:48

I would bid 2NT scrambling. There are too many hands where 2HX will make.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#13 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 08:02

What kind of drivel would partner reopen with?
Do I have to guard against his error?
He made a suggestion we have stuff.
He asked "What do I think?" I think defend!
Just as many other situations use your best judgment.
Can't bat 1000%
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#14 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 08:43

 dake50, on 2012-April-25, 08:02, said:

Can't bat 1000%

Or even 100%.

;)

I'd pass, expecting partner to be stronger than the OP's. If that's what partner has, then I'd expect tight defense.
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#15 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 09:31

I really try to avoid doubling with voids, so for me its an easy pass.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
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#16 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 09:57

 benlessard, on 2012-April-25, 09:31, said:

I really try to avoid doubling with voids, so for me its an easy pass.


This. +1
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#17 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 10:05

Pass. I think this is a better problem at IMPs.
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#18 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 11:16

 Phil, on 2012-April-25, 10:05, said:

Pass. I think this is a better problem at IMPs.


Really? I would never consider passing at imps. You go from high risk (zero) to high reward (top!) at MP. You go from high risk (doubled partscore making) to low reward at imps. Well, I guess you might beat them 2 or beat them when a partscore would fail, but your main upside of nipping them a trick when you can make a partscore is no longer very beneficial when playing imps. Definitely seems like a better problem at MP.
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#19 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 11:46

 JLOGIC, on 2012-April-25, 11:16, said:

Really? I would never consider passing at imps. You go from high risk (zero) to high reward (top!) at MP. You go from high risk (doubled partscore making) to low reward at imps. Well, I guess you might beat them 2 or beat them when a partscore would fail, but your main upside of nipping them a trick when you can make a partscore is no longer very beneficial when playing imps. Definitely seems like a better problem at MP.


You never said what you'd bid at IMPs. 2N scrambling I guess?

I started to write a long response, but a lot of my thought process boils down to this question:

"Will partner reopen with the same hands at IMPs as he will at MPs, or can we expect something better"?
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#20 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-April-25, 14:38

 cherdano, on 2012-April-24, 20:09, said:

Well, of course I would play better than the field in 3, and expect to score 65%. But of course I would also find the correct defense against 2X, for 95%.

More seriously, I don't think this is the right way to think about this problem. It is not clear at all where the field will be - maybe RHO had a borderline 2H raise and the field is playing 1N or 2. If the field is weak, many won't find partner's obvious reopening double and will be defending 2 undoubled. Even if the field reopens, many in our position may actually pass; if 2X is just down one, then good luck scoring better than 50% in 3.

The problem is about comparing your expected score from defending 2X with your expected score from playing 3. Trying to figure out what we expect for playing 3 is obviously a big part of that. If the suggestion is that, because this is hard to figure out and our estimate might be wrong, we should just assume that playing 3 will be worth 50%, then I don't think *that* is the right way to think about this problem, or any problem.
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