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Are you worth a move partner jumps to game in own suit after reverse

Poll: Are you worth a move (22 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your call here?

  1. Pass (12 votes [54.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.55%

  2. 4S (3 votes [13.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.64%

  3. 4NT (6 votes [27.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

  4. 5H (1 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  5. 5NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 6H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other/abstain (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2014-August-15, 17:46

 akwoo, on 2014-August-15, 16:07, said:

Actually I agree with this, but I assumed that if 4H was agreed as a picture bid, then OP would have mentioned this. The default without further discussion seems to be fast arrival, not picture bids.

Personally, I think fast arrival in this sequence should only be support for opener. I wouldn't want to bid 4H on xx, Axxxxxx, xx, xx and play opposite a heart void.

To my thinking, fast arrival as a principle is fine in supportive auctions, but not so good as a blanket policy that covers all jumps to game.
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#22 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-August-15, 21:49

Easy 5H bid asking pd to bid 6 with good trumps. Those who think pd has J to 7 hearts are joking. We may well have a H void.
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#23 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2014-August-16, 04:45

Thanks for the reply. 4H was undiscussed (therefore "standard") hence I didn't mention what it was in OP. I bid 4NT and bid 6 when partner showed 2 KC. I can't find the hand records, but partner had xx AKxxxxx xx Tx. The spade finesse was right, trumps were 3-2, but unfortunately partner got the club guess wrong (the 1S overcaller having the queen and not the ace). The other table also landed in 6 hearts, but got the clubs right so we lost 17 imps on it.
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#24 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2014-August-16, 23:05

slam is less than what? less than 50%?

Is there an uppercut here on any defense?

fwiw it seems pard has a 2h rebid not 4h?
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#25 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-August-17, 03:25

 mike777, on 2014-August-16, 23:05, said:

slam is less than what? less than 50%?

Is there an uppercut here on any defense?

fwiw it seems pard has a 2h rebid not 4h?


What do you mean? It's of course less than %50, not even close. Just the club suit alone is %50 and you may not even have a guess at all. Then you have spade finesse off chances which is probably at least %15 due to overcall. Not done yet, you need 3-2 trumps.
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#26 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2014-August-17, 08:52

 MrAce, on 2014-August-17, 03:25, said:

What do you mean? It's of course less than %50, not even close. Just the club suit alone is %50 and you may not even have a guess at all. Then you have spade finesse off chances which is probably at least %15 due to overcall. Not done yet, you need 3-2 trumps.


I think even without discussion the jump to 4H in a reverse auction has to describe a strong, long suit that can play opposite a void: AKQ109x would be a minimum for that call, so we can easily assume AKJxxxx. An assumption can be made that the Spade king is with the overcaller, so that leaves clubs as the problem suit - if partner has the Q, voila'.

If this auction came up with any of my normal partners, I would be shocked if 6H weren't at least a 50/50 shot.
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#27 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2014-August-17, 16:40

I would pass. I dont think partner has a hopeless hand else he would have just bid 4♥ over1♣. But then again he knew that he was facing an unlimited hand and decided to make a double jump so he probably has his reasons. IMHO bidding now shows a lack of trust in partner.

Edit: Didnt see that 4♥ would not have been natural - now you have all the more reasons to pass.
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#28 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-August-17, 20:53

 Winstonm, on 2014-August-17, 08:52, said:

I think even without discussion the jump to 4H in a reverse auction has to describe a strong, long suit that can play opposite a void: AKQ109x would be a minimum for that call, so we can easily assume AKJxxxx. An assumption can be made that the Spade king is with the overcaller, so that leaves clubs as the problem suit - if partner has the Q, voila'.

If this auction came up with any of my normal partners, I would be shocked if 6H weren't at least a 50/50 shot.


The second I read your first sentence and the minimum suit quality required for this bid, I lost my interest about replying but I have to say that I disagree, completely.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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#29 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-August-18, 04:05

 MrAce, on 2014-August-17, 20:53, said:

The second I read your first sentence and the minimum suit quality required for this bid, I lost my interest about replying but I have to say that I disagree, completely.


The suit will be good and long, and the hand will have enough playing strength to be at the 4 level. It will not be ace empty to 7, it will have good intermediates unless very very long or strong. KJ10 8th or AK/KJ109/AJ109 7th would be the sort of holdings I'd expect when looking at the Q. The suit needs to be playable opposite a void for no more than 2 losers even on a less than totally friendly break.

Many people play a good/bad 2N over the reverse, I'm not sure what a "bad" 3♥ looks like if you play that, but some of the suggested hands are 2♥ rebids (or possibly 2♥ responses if you play WJS).
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#30 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-August-26, 01:53

Some people also play that all non-game bids after a reverse are forcing, e.g.

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 2♠ (5 spades, forcing, unlimited.. not your usual 5-8 HCP)
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#31 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-August-26, 11:25

 whereagles, on 2014-August-26, 01:53, said:

Some people also play that all non-game bids after a reverse are forcing, e.g.

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 2♠ (5 spades, forcing, unlimited.. not your usual 5-8 HCP)


5-8 ? Usual? Where is that?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#32 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-August-29, 08:10

 MrAce, on 2014-August-26, 11:25, said:

5-8 ? Usual? Where is that?

Before learning Lebensohl or the like most learn that a minimum call is weakness and that GF hands start with the fourth suit. This is a horrible agreement and one reason why reverse auctions often end up being the toughest of all with a pick-up partner. As I have pointed out before 2♠ non-forcing is certainly playable though - you just have to build the rest of the structure to compensate.
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