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What would you expect here from random expert partner? Would you bid on or pass?
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Pull or pass?
#1
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Posted 2015-June-19, 11:32
"All Stars" TM on BBO.
What would you expect here from random expert partner? Would you bid on or pass?
What would you expect here from random expert partner? Would you bid on or pass?
#2
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Posted 2015-June-19, 11:52
With someone reliable I would expect solid diamonds, and a source of tricks. Its probably right to pass - e.g., x Ax AKQJxxx Kxx.
With a random in a STAR TMZ OK match I would expect a semi-balanced 18-19 where they don't trust me to make the right decision, and I will bid 4♠.
With a random in a STAR TMZ OK match I would expect a semi-balanced 18-19 where they don't trust me to make the right decision, and I will bid 4♠.
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#3
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Posted 2015-June-19, 13:28
Phil, on 2015-June-19, 11:52, said:
With someone reliable I would expect solid diamonds, and a source of tricks. Its probably right to pass - e.g., x Ax AKQJxxx Kxx.
With a random in a STAR TMZ OK match I would expect a semi-balanced 18-19 where they don't trust me to make the right decision, and I will bid 4♠.
With a random in a STAR TMZ OK match I would expect a semi-balanced 18-19 where they don't trust me to make the right decision, and I will bid 4♠.
Agree. 1m-1M-3NT is a common handhogging bid among BBO randoms.
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#4
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Posted 2015-June-19, 13:38
billw55, on 2015-June-19, 13:28, said:
Agree. 1m-1M-3NT is a common handhogging bid among BBO randoms.
Does that mean you'd pass or bid?
#5
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Posted 2015-June-19, 13:43
diana_eva, on 2015-June-19, 13:38, said:
Does that mean you'd pass or bid?
I bid 4♠ unless I KNOW my PD will have running ♦.
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Posted 2015-June-19, 14:56
I think it's likely right to bid even opposite a hand with long diamonds. 3NT doesn't promise a running suit, just a very good suit. Where do you want to play if partner has, say, x Axx AKJ10xxx Ax ?
#7
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Posted 2015-June-20, 02:04
Thanks for the replies. I didn't know what to do there, nor what a 3NT in this sequence really looks like. I passed, fearing that it would be bad to pull partner's solid suit to my broken one with possible transportation problems. Partner thought I should have bid 4♠ regardless.
11IMPs down the drain when the other table played 4♠ making.
11IMPs down the drain when the other table played 4♠ making.
#8
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Posted 2015-June-20, 06:46
Ithink your partner is being a result merchant on this deal, blaming you for his light bid, as he is'indeed a little weak (the 7th D does not fully compensate the soft C stopper). But I would probably have perpetrated the same bid! Your 7th S could also be the factor for pulling, but with majors well stopped as well from my side (AQ + Q9 in support of partner's H stoppers) I'D probably have respected the 3NT bid as well, expecting Kx at least in C. A bit unlucky but the "shut up 3NT" is the main reason imo.
#9
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Posted 2015-June-20, 09:54
I don't particularly quarrel with North's 3NT, I would quarrel with him second guessing your pass. Exactly where the boundary is on a 3NT rebid could be a useful discussion but at the least it says something like "With a little help and a little luck I can run 9 tricks". Your Ace of spades provides a little help, and he is gambling on the little luck.
I can certainly see bidding 4S. I can certainly see passing. I would be happy to hear whether people think that this is or is not a 3NT re-bid. I tend to think that it is. When it goes down, I move on to the next hand/
I can certainly see bidding 4S. I can certainly see passing. I would be happy to hear whether people think that this is or is not a 3NT re-bid. I tend to think that it is. When it goes down, I move on to the next hand/
Ken
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Posted 2015-June-20, 11:36
I'm not fond of 3nt at all unless it had 1 less spade and 1 more club. Just too many flaws including burying your spade contract and 3♦ is enough for me. Especially with a useful spade holding. Forgivable at mp's maybe?
That said I'm generally allergic to 3nt with a singleton let alone 2 of them and would pull in a casual partnership. A critique of the pass is out of bounds though.
That said I'm generally allergic to 3nt with a singleton let alone 2 of them and would pull in a casual partnership. A critique of the pass is out of bounds though.
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#11
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Posted 2015-June-20, 11:41
I would play a jump to 3 NT in this situation as a long running minor gambling that 3 NT will make.
Since I can't know if partner has anything at all in ♠s, I'd sit just like you did.
Partner took a gamble and lost --- end of discussion.
I wonder what partner would have said if you'd bid 4 ♠ and gone down while 3 NT was a make?
Since I can't know if partner has anything at all in ♠s, I'd sit just like you did.
Partner took a gamble and lost --- end of discussion.
I wonder what partner would have said if you'd bid 4 ♠ and gone down while 3 NT was a make?
#12
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Posted 2015-June-20, 14:09
Seems like a very normal 3n bid And you're. 7411 di! My vote - PULL
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#13
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Posted 2015-June-20, 21:35
Just my $ 0.02:
3NT means: "I think we have 9 tricks in NT if you have spades stopped."
You have spades stopped. It seems that your partner thought wrong.
Rik
3NT means: "I think we have 9 tricks in NT if you have spades stopped."
You have spades stopped. It seems that your partner thought wrong.
Rik
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#14
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Posted 2015-June-20, 21:54
rmnka447, on 2015-June-20, 11:41, said:
I would play a jump to 3 NT in this situation as a long running minor gambling that 3 NT will make.
Since I can't know if partner has anything at all in ♠s, I'd sit just like you did.
Partner took a gamble and lost --- end of discussion.
I wonder what partner would have said if you'd bid 4 ♠ and gone down while 3 NT was a make?
Since I can't know if partner has anything at all in ♠s, I'd sit just like you did.
Partner took a gamble and lost --- end of discussion.
I wonder what partner would have said if you'd bid 4 ♠ and gone down while 3 NT was a make?
Nice post!
#15
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Posted 2015-June-21, 01:49
It is a gamble by North.From South' perspective North must hold either atleast HA/CK or CA/HK for a foolproof game against proper defence,in those cases 4S will also probably make as North has atleast 1S. Otherwise only 4S is having a fighting chance to make.SO pull.
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Posted 2015-June-21, 02:24
I think those saying things like "partner took a gamble and lost" and "partner said he has 9 tricks if you have spades stopped, you have spades stopped" are not really thinking the hand through.
What would you bid holding QJ1098xxxx Qxxx - - ? (assuming you responding a spade) There has to be some hands on which you'd pull.
3NT doesn't say "I want to play in 3NT". It says "I have a good hand with a long diamond suit, high cards in hearts and clubs and usually a singleton spade" and you are asked to express an opinion.
As I said before seeing the full hand, it's very easy to construct hands where 4S is better than 3NT. You can also construct hands where 3NT makes and 4S doesn't although actually it's much harder (x Jx AKQJxxx KQx is better in 3NT, but even that isn't cold on a spade lead).
What would you bid holding QJ1098xxxx Qxxx - - ? (assuming you responding a spade) There has to be some hands on which you'd pull.
3NT doesn't say "I want to play in 3NT". It says "I have a good hand with a long diamond suit, high cards in hearts and clubs and usually a singleton spade" and you are asked to express an opinion.
As I said before seeing the full hand, it's very easy to construct hands where 4S is better than 3NT. You can also construct hands where 3NT makes and 4S doesn't although actually it's much harder (x Jx AKQJxxx KQx is better in 3NT, but even that isn't cold on a spade lead).
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Posted 2015-June-21, 03:00
FrancesHinden, on 2015-June-21, 02:24, said:
I think those saying things like "partner took a gamble and lost" and "partner said he has 9 tricks if you have spades stopped, you have spades stopped" are not really thinking the hand through.
What would you bid holding QJ1098xxxx Qxxx - - ? (assuming you responding a spade) There has to be some hands on which you'd pull.
3NT doesn't say "I want to play in 3NT". It says "I have a good hand with a long diamond suit, high cards in hearts and clubs and usually a singleton spade" and you are asked to express an opinion.
As I said before seeing the full hand, it's very easy to construct hands where 4S is better than 3NT. You can also construct hands where 3NT makes and 4S doesn't although actually it's much harder (x Jx AKQJxxx KQx is better in 3NT, but even that isn't cold on a spade lead).
What would you bid holding QJ1098xxxx Qxxx - - ? (assuming you responding a spade) There has to be some hands on which you'd pull.
3NT doesn't say "I want to play in 3NT". It says "I have a good hand with a long diamond suit, high cards in hearts and clubs and usually a singleton spade" and you are asked to express an opinion.
As I said before seeing the full hand, it's very easy to construct hands where 4S is better than 3NT. You can also construct hands where 3NT makes and 4S doesn't although actually it's much harder (x Jx AKQJxxx KQx is better in 3NT, but even that isn't cold on a spade lead).
GIB agrees with you. Robots bid this hand in a very simple way: 1♦ - 4♠
If I tried to force it to make a decision over 3NT, it still pulled to 4♠.
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