BBO Discussion Forums: Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? - BBO Discussion Forums

 barmar, on 2017-November-09, 10:17, said:

So when does Trump receive the credit or blame for the manifestations of the ecomomy? Or do we just say that today's manifestation is the just the continuing results of the industrial revolution?

I believe that Broadcom just announced they are moving back from the Philipines.

We obviously disagree on the benefit of regulations. I don't think the Federal Government is my nanny.

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 11:06, said:

As I was hoping you'd eventually try to discover for yourself before you dug your head in the sand, Trump gets credit for making lots of promises. Tax cut for the wealthiest 1% and corporations, that indicates increased earnings. Infrastructure? More earnings. Wall? More earnings.

The problems will arise when you catch up with the rest of us and realize that these promises are all a big joke.

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Could you answer the ISP question now? Does net neutrality mean anything to you?

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 11:28, said:

Of what relevance is the ISP? Sure net neutrality means something, it means depending of the Federal Government to make the ISPs behave the way you think they should. Nothing beats the barrel of a gun to enforce your views!

Now, will you tell me why improving the economic conditions of middle/working class is bad?

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 11:28, said:

Actually, Trump has kept, or tried to keep, more of his promises than the average politician/President. The ones that he hasn't kept seem to require the cooperation of Congress, and they can't seem to get their act together.

Can you enumerate the promises that Trump has not kept that he has the power and authority to do so?

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 11:53, said:

It is not uncommon for people like you to fight for the exact thing that hurts you the most. I was curious if the ownership group of your ISP would censor the material you want to read or promote it.

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 11:56, said:

If it weren't for those obstructionist republicans, maybe something could get done.

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 11:56, said:

Why did he promise to do things that he wouldn't have power or authority to do?

 WellSpyder, on 2017-November-09, 12:10, said:

Probably because he mistakenly thought he would have the support of the Republican Congress in implementing his agenda.

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 12:09, said:

Holy Cow! Once again a post with no recognizable substance. What promises has Trump not kept or attempted to keep? Quit evading.

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 11:59, said:

In my experience it people who share your mindset that think about censoring people you disagree with.

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 12:32, said:

The Promise: "President Obama wants to change the name of Mt. McKinley to Denali after more than 100 years. Great insult to Ohio. I will change back!"
Update October 30th, 2017: Trump backed off promise to change Denali’s name, says Alaska senator

The Promise: "It can be done. ... It will take place and it will go relatively quickly. ... If you have the right people, like, in the agencies and the various people that do the balancing ... you can cut the numbers by two pennies and three pennies and balance a budget quickly and have a stronger and better country."
Update October 20th, 2017: Trump cheers budget plan that wouldn't balance budget

The Promise: "We’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt. ... Well, I would say over a period of eight years. And I’ll tell you why.”
Update October 20th, 2017: Trump celebrates Senate budget bill, but it busts his promise to eliminate federal debt

The Promise: “And if people don't like it, we've got to have a country folks. Got to have a country. Countries in which immigration will be suspended would include places like Syria and Libya. And we are going to stop the tens of thousands of people coming in from Syria.”
Update October 17th, 2017: Federal judge blocks Donald Trump’s third travel ban

The Promise: "As president, I will call for an international conference focused on this goal. We will work side-by-side with our friends in the Middle East, including our greatest ally, Israel."
Update October 13th, 2017: No international conference on ISIS in sight

The Promise: "Increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays)."
Update October 11th, 2017: President Donald Trump stalls on visa fee increases for Mexican nationals

The Promise: "We will move the American embassy to the eternal capital of the Jewish people, Jerusalem."
Update October 9th, 2017: Trump signals step back from Israeli embassy plan

The Promise: "The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program."
Update October 9th, 2017: President Donald Trump stalls on promise to eliminate J-1 visa program

The Promise: "Everybody is getting a tax cut, especially the middle class."
Update October 5th, 2017: Tax plan appears to favor wealthiest, no guarantee of cuts for all

Should I keep going? That's only page 1.

 ldrews, on 2017-November-09, 12:34, said:

OK? lol?

 ldrews, on 2017-November-08, 22:27, said:

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 11:28, said:

So, if you Think Trump's Presidency has contributed to the DJIA from 19,700+ to 23,000 on his own leadership.. .then let's apply this logic to Past Presidents.

When Bush was inaugurated into office in January 2001 -- The Dow Jones was 10,500+. When he finished his 1st term in January 2005. The Down Jones was 10,580+. That's a huge difference. Sarcasm included.

When George Bush left the office in 2008, he handed Obama a stinking pile of $hit, courtesy of the housing bubble crash, with a DJIA at 8281+. That's a sizeable drop from 10,580 in January 2005. OUR CAPITAL MARKETS WERE IN DISREPAIR IN 2008.

At then end of Obama's 1st term, the DJIA went up from 8281+ in 2008 to 13700+ in January 2013. When Obama left and before Trump stepped into office the DJIA went to 19700+.

So which is it? Is Trump a business genius because the DJIA went from 19700+ (in January 2017) to 23000+ (now)? Is Obama an oaf because he received an 8,281 DJIA from Bush in 2008 and muscled it up to 19,700 before Trump arrived in 2017?

If we apply the same logic, what should we say how President George W. Bush handled the economy solely based on the the DJIA as a barometer of economic health and vitality?

If we are going to use talking points to measure leadership, make sure we are using the same rulers when we measure each President. Obama seems like a savvy businessman or turnaround specialist given his starting point and ending point DJIA as well.

Obviously, Obama's Presidency couldn't have destroyed corporate earnings quality if DJIA can go from 8,800+ in 2008 to 13,700+ in 2013 to 19,700 in 2017.

Now, I am aware how Federal Reserve Bank monetary policy has impacted these numbers, but still DJIA IS DJIA IS DJIA.

When over $3 trillion dollar of loans (assets) are added to the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet that loaned money has to go somewhere. And guess what, those loans get laundered through the international capital markets and come back to our illustrious Wall Street capital markets.

I probably could adjust these numbers for inflation as well but I will let others do that if they think it will radically change the argument.

and ldrews, since you're a special snowflake and this will get you riled up

“I’m under a routine audit and it'll be released, and as soon as the audit is finished it will be released."

Monday, January 16th, 2017 at 11:17 a.m.

 RedSpawn, on 2017-November-09, 12:49, said:

It would be stupid to think that.

 RedSpawn, on 2017-November-09, 12:49, said:

Doesn't it have a lot to do with QE 1,2 and 3? Banks with +ve balance sheets and low, low interest rates get investors into the market. Latest asset bubble, no?

 Al_U_Card, on 2017-November-09, 12:59, said:

Yes, it does. That's why it's misguided to use "record stock highs" as a measure of "winning" or "leadership" by President Bush, Obama, or Trump.

Currently, we have a casino/strip club risk-taking mentality in our capital markets. Federal Reserve Bank Chairman and Chairwoman Bernanke and Yellen have "made it rain" $$$ in our capital markets by injecting insane amounts of dollar bills (liquidity) in our capital markets to stave off the calamitous financial consequences of exotic risk taking and poor corporate governance by several investment houses, retail banks, insurance companies, and other corporations around 2008.

This has created a huge asset bubble in our capital markets and some of us are attributing the appreciation of capital stock prices to Presidential leadership, higher productivity, better corporate earnings quality, and stronger business investment in the broader economy. However, this appreciation is a false economy built on significant corporate stock buyback programs, automation and offshoring of jobs to cheaper labor markets, and continued lemon socialism by our federal government and central bankers.

Our federal government has engaged in "lemon socialism" to the benefit of Wall Street and Corporate America but has yet to send that public messaging to the masses who are trying to function and subsist on Main Street.

https://en.m.wikiped...Lemon_socialism

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 12:43, said:

Well thank you. Finally something to work with and talk about.

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OK, this is one that I had never heard of. But be serious! With significant problems with the economy, ISIS, North Korea, trade agreements, immigration problems, you focus on this?

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So you think the federal debt is more important that the operating budget? Unless Trump focussed on the debt, they you would think the operating budget is more important. You remind me of the mother who gave her son two shirts for his birthday, a red one and a blue one. He tried on the red shirt, and his mother immediately asked: "Don't you like the blue shirt?" Let's wait and see at the end of his term whether he has make attempts to reduce the federal debt. Or must he do so today?

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Well, Trump has made several attempts to do so. People who disagree with him keep finding judges who suspend his executive orders on constitutional grounds. Eventually this will be sorted out by the Supreme Court. But you can't deny he has tried to keep this promise.

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You are right on this one, Trump has not called for an international conference. Instead ISIS has been decimated, their territorial claims pretty much extinguished. This has become a moot point.

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"stalls". Sounds like it might yet happen. In any case illegal border crossings have been substantially reduced. The border wall project is in prototype stage with proposed solutions available for viewing.

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As you point out this has not yet been completed. A "step back" is not a cancellation. And political realities may indicate that this was not a good promise to make.

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Again "stalls", not cancellation. The inner cities are one of our major society problems. I am not familiar with the J-1 visa program, could you explain it to me?

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"Everybody" cannot get a tax cut. 50% of the "taxpayers" do not pay income tax, so they cannot possible get a "tax cut". And the latest version of the plan that I have heard about keeps the top bracket the same. Trump has said that he personally will have to pay more taxes. Apparently the working/middle class do get a significant tax reduction. Could you explain to me how the latest proposed plan benefits the wealthy?

 jjbrr, on 2017-November-09, 12:52, said:

Doesn't get me riled up at all. Is the audit finished? If so, he has not kept this promise.

Now I ask, what does Trump's tax returns have to do with the well-being of this country? Does the release of his tax returns help solve any social problems, any economic problems, any international conflict problems?

https://www.msn.com/...-cut/ar-BBEMbt7

So Wall Street is whining if it doesn't get it precious Trump-approved "corporate tax cut" in 2018 (to the tune of $1.5 trillion dollars over the next 10 years). Why am I not surprised?

I am not exactly sure why we believe the business community is going to reinvest this tax cut by hiring more people on Main Street when we know this tax cut will stay in house to boost the corporations' bottom lines or be shared almost exclusively with shareholders to increase the value of their stock through stock buyback programs.

Our highway, bridges, and airports are crumbling but we are beholden to the special interests of Corporate America. Corporate tax cuts take priority over long overdue and needed infrastructure investment and rehabilitation. Go figure!