[Chamaco]

Hi all, I'd appreciate feedback and cnstructive criticism on the following hand that occurred in a team match.

Thanks!

=======
Team match,
We are VULN, opps are Non-Vuln

RHO deals and opens 1C (better minor) and I am dealt:

Qx-KQJx-Axx-KQJx

If I were playing natural 1NT overcall, I might downgrade the hand to 17 (for ♠Qx) and overcall 1NT, but we play Raptor so I double.

LHO Redoubles and pard bids spades.
We did not discuss if her bidding spades should promise 4 or 5.

RHO passed and, being in doubt, I bid 1NT, which was doubled -2, a bad swing.

Summarizing the bidding:

RHO....me....LHO....pard
1C......X.......XX......1S
p........1NT....X.....all pass

Pard held:
xxxx-x-xxxx-xxxx

Questions:
1) Should 1S promise 5+ length in spades ?
I think so, and in that case I'd have passed.

2) I suppose that with the given hand, my pard should have passed, and we would have ended in 1NT X - 2 anyways ?
Or should there be a runout mechanism ? (e.g. scramble in the diamond moysian here)

[david_c]

1. Maybe it's different when you play Raptor, but I'd say there are plenty of hands which are clear 1♠ bids with only four spades, like Kxxx xx xxx xxxx.

2. Yes, partner should probably pass and you start running. A 2♣ contract should also be in the picture here, and there's a decent chance that you might find it - or you might still end up in 1NTx.

(I don't like partner's 1♠ bid. If you're not going to pass, 1♦ seems better.)

[luke warm]

usually having a 4 card major is fine opposite a t/o x, so i'd think it can't guarantee 5... as for the hand, i think i'd have passed to limit my hand

[joker_gib]

Bidding 1♠ here should promise 5 cards as you remove 1♦ and 1♥ by your partner !

If you have 4333, you pass cause you accept all suits.

Better to pass with xxxx-x-xxxx-xxxx and see what happens (you can still bid 1♠ after)

Alain

[joker_gib]

Btw I think that on 1♥ - X - XX - ?

Here 1♠ is only 4 cards cause you don't remove any bid to partner and you tell him you have 4♠ to avoid the 2-level.

Alain

[SoTired]

over the XX, advancer should pass since advancer is weak and does not have a definitive preference for a single suit.

Considering the XX, overcaller might pass 1S and hope it is not doubled.

Considering how weak advancer is, advancer must run over 1NX. A good treatment is XX by advancer shows a 5-card suit somewhere and bidding shows cheapest 4-card suit. So advancer should run to 2C which overcaller will pass doubled or not.

After advancer passes, overcaller should XX with a 5-card suit somewhere and run to cheapest 4-card suit whcih is 2C.

Even if not playing this treatment, opener should not stand for 1NX and should run by XX or bid 2C.

[luis]

It depends
We have two things to analyze the first one is if a pass would be a penalty pass after the redouble. Some pairs play that after 1x-X-XX a pass shows desire to play the redoubled contract. My agreement, for example is that I play this over a major suit doubled but not over a minor suit doubled (to avoid exactly your accident).
Assuming a pass is not for penalties your pd must of course pass and you can bid 1♥ before 1NT I don't think they can double 1♥ very easily.

If your pd was in a forcing situation then I think 1♦ is better than 1♠ specially with xxxx in the suit. You can still play 4 different contracts after 1♦ at the 1 level.

And finally 1♠ does not show 5 cards, just 4+ a typical example is 4333

Luis

[joker_gib]

luis, on Nov 16 2005, 02:32 PM, said:

And finally 1♠ does not show 5 cards, just 4+ a typical example is 4333

Luis

Hi Luis,

Do you bid 1♠ with xxxx-xxx-xxx-xxx on 1♣-X-XX-?

Is it not better to pass and let partner bid as you accept all suit ?

Alain

[whereagles]

Regardless of what pard should or should not have bid, the 1NT bidder might have tried to rescue himself... he knew points split 12-18-10-0, so it's a fair chance pard has squat and a self-rescue is in order.

[luis]

joker_gib, on Nov 16 2005, 01:43 PM, said:

luis, on Nov 16 2005, 02:32 PM, said:

And finally 1♠ does not show 5 cards, just 4+ a typical example is 4333

Luis

Hi Luis,

Do you bid 1♠ with xxxx-xxx-xxx-xxx on 1♣-X-XX-?

Is it not better to pass and let partner bid as you accept all suit ?

Alain

As I said I play that I can pass to let doubler's choose but some players I know play that a pass would be with clubs so they have to bid 1♠

[Winstonm]

Hey, S@#$ happens. I see nothing here that particularly egregious on either side so would chalk it up to holding the wrong hands at the wrong time. And btw, if this is the worst result you have to be concerned about I would not enjoy much trying to beat you....

Winston

[Al_U_Card]

Likewise, you pass when any rebid by pard is acceptable......so 1S says this is the most acceptable place to play, according to my hand.

[Kalvan14]

Partner might have 1 Jack. Maybe not. If she comes out with a bid of 1♠, she will have her reasons (and probably 5 spades too . I would respect her, and pass (not that you have anything to bid, in this tactical situation)

[kenberg]

Assuming, as I do, that a pass of XX is not to play then a bid should show guidance. that is, we are maybe in a spot here but I suggest we play it in the suit I am bidding. It seems unlikely partner, over 1C, can have that strong a preference for spades unless holding five. Not really a matter of convention, just of likelihood. I would pass the XX and then, if partner gets to hearts and if he is doubled, then I would run to spades.

Over the pass, if RHO also passes, maybe leaving in 1C XX is better than trying 1NT? Looking only at your hand it seems that if you can make 1NT you can perhaps beat 1C. Pass and lead the king of hearts might be fine. Or not. But 1NT is not all that attractive either. It's hard to see seven tricks in NT opposite a broke partner, but six tricks defending clubs just making might be a tolerable result (-230, right?). Looking also at partner's hand (unfortunately not allowed in most tournaments) pass appears like an attractive choice.

Further in favor of your partner passing, RHO may well bid his hearts. With three clubs and a minimum count he may not think 1C rewound is all that great a contract even if his partner does have some stuff.

In short, I don't agree at all with your partner's 1S bid. I pass and continue to pass unless it comes to 1H-X.

[awm]

No one seems to be mentioning partner's second pass. Partner's hand is useless in notrumps, it seems very likely that some minor suit contract will play better, and 1NT has already been doubled. Why does partner not now run to a minor, or redouble for rescue? I think this is the biggest mistake on the hand.

I personally prefer partner's pass to show desire to defend. Even if this is not the case, I don't think a 1♠ bid is ridiculous -- more often than not we have a spade fit on this hand and this will mildly preempt the opponents as well as reaching our best spot straightaway.

[mikestar]

Marshall Miles would no doubt overcall 1♥ instead of doubling (given he was playing Raptor) and this will probably let you get out in 2♦ (or 2♣).

But X is still a reasonable call.

Partner's 1♠ might be 4 cards, he doesn't want to pass with xxxx-xx-xx-xxxxx. But it must deny 4 cards in either red suit. Partners correct bid on this hand is 1♦ and then you pass--the opponent will likely bid a contract of their own, and if they do whack it, it should cost less than 1NT.

However, agreeing that partner passes xxxx-xx-xx-xxxxx and corrects your red suit bid to spades has merit and 1♠ would promise 5 in this case.

These auctions are strictly up the line--the object isn't to get to a major suit fit, it's to get out alive.

Your 1NT over 1♠ is fine if responder had passed. But after the redouble, a hand of this strength needs to run. If natural, this need to be about 23 HCP, to have the balance of power and to compensate for all the points being in one hand--so 1NT can't be natural. I would suggest it should mean "can't play in spades, but I have four clubs" while 2♣ would show 5 clubs.

Playing the enemy minor is often an excellent option after (1m)-X-XX.