[Winstonm]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 21 2005, 09:14 AM, said:

Clearly from the replies so far this becomes a matter for partnership agreement.

I play that 1D/H/S all promise 5(+) clubs and usually 4 of the suit bid (a 65 might well jump unless super-minimum).

Redouble is usually 18-19 balanced, inviting partner to compete.

2C shows good clubs, no extra values.
3C shows a very good hand with long clubs.

You missed out 1NT. What's the difference between redouble and 1NT?

I agree in principal. There must be some reason to remove and the most logical reason is a good hand. 1C/H/S make most sense as unbalanced and strong enough to compete opposite a passing partner. 1N traditionally shows 18-19 balanced. Redouble, IMO, should be the strongest of all bids, showing in essense a powerful playing hand unsuited to a 2C opener, either because of HCP are not there or the shape is awkward for 2C - AKxx, AKxx, void, AQxxx - along those lines. IMO, the redouble should in essence say, if you have a 5-crd suit that fits with my hand we probably have game.

I'm not much of a believer in using redouble as a rescue here - if you have opened on 4423 pattern you aren't likely to find a better fit anyway, and partner can still pull if he has shortness. And sometimes, the cream you in 1C doubled.

OH, well. Next hand.

Winston

[mikeh]

What partner shows is a matter of style/agreement. For example, I play that 1♣ could be 4=4=3=2 (1♦ openers promise 4+), and I play that redouble shows that hand, while 1♠ shows an unbalanced hand. Without prior discussion, the question of what partner shows is essentially meaningless

No matter what he shows, I have underbid at my first call (I cannot imagine passing with this hand), but I am actually happy that I did so. My hand is not worth much here, with xxxx of ♣ and ♥ values that are probably not worth their initial valuation: partner is probably short and even if not, there is an increased likelihood, now, that the AQ are sitting over my cards.

I am content to bid 2♣.

Try to imagine a hand on which game has a play, consistent with the auction, and on which partner cannot/will not make another move.

AKxx Qx x AKxxxx looks ok, but where are the ♦'s? Someone should have been bidding that suit somewhere. And even if he holds that improbable (on the auction) hand, will 3♣ get him to go to game? How does he know that your red suits are not reversed, where game is silly?

When we are guessing about partner's hand, swing low. When we have already made an underbid (having decided, apparently, that this was not a response) remain consistent with that valuation unless and until you receive sufficient clear evidence to warrant an upgrade. The murky meaning of 1♠ is not clear enough for me to bounce to 3♣.

[whereagles]

I think that in the sequence

1♣ (pass) pass (dbl)
rdbl

the redouble doesn't make any sense as penalties. Therefore, the redouble is better used as SOS with some weakish 12-14 NT hand of 4333 or 4432 pattern, asking pard to pick a suit.

That would mean that auctions like the above

1♣ (pass) pass (dbl)
1♠

show a 5-4 hand, probably with some extras, since with a min one just passes the double).

[Winstonm]

Jlall, on Nov 28 2005, 12:07 PM, said:

2C, and I agree with all the definitions frances gave. I don't run with 4333, partner is still able to run.

One of my partner's, Dave Grainger, has a good rule. If the auction goes 1C p p X p p against good opponents, ALWAYS run lol. That is extreme but I have not yet passed in real life when that auction has come up.

ROFLOL. My actual partner and I have the same agreement. If the auction goes:

1C-X-P-P

The opponents' are always right!

Winston

[han]

This discussion somehow reminds me of a hand I had about half a year ago, a 4-4-1-4 18-count. I opened 1C and the auction was

1C - (Dbl) - Rdbl* - all pass.

Partner's redouble was a transfer to diamonds, I had four excellent clubs, they were red (so were we) and I decided to try to penalize them. Little did I expect them to pass out 1CXX. Partner had a big hand with a stiff club. I made four (yes, 1CXX+3) which scored slightly less than the slam at the other table. (if this is incorrect than it was 1CXX+2, it has been a while)


I should have applied Grainger's rule.

[Winstonm]

Hannie, on Nov 29 2005, 01:39 AM, said:

This discussion somehow reminds me of a hand I had about half a year ago, a 4-4-1-4 18-count. I opened 1C and the auction was

1C - (Dbl) - Rdbl* - all pass.

Partner's redouble was a transfer to diamonds, I had four excellent clubs, they were red (so were we) and I decided to try to penalize them. Little did I expect them to pass out 1CXX. Partner had a big hand with a stiff club. I made four (yes, 1CXX+3) which scored slightly less than the slam at the other table. (if this is incorrect than it was 1CXX+2, it has been a while)


I should have applied Grainger's rule.

This reminds me of another little agreement: how many have this down?

1C-X-XX-P?

Most play this as "save yourself". This seems somewhat wasted to me, so partner and I have decided this is a "penalty" pass, saying 1C XX is fine with us. What else you doing to do with:

xx, xx, xxx, KJ10984?

Winston

[Fluffy]

Hey Winston, I play all the pass of a redouble as penalty except exaactly this one, for the frequency of a scrambling hand where you have no suit. You don't really wanna play 1♣ XX frequently (in fact I didn't see it ever yet) when they ahve 22+ HCP.

[han]

I also play what the pass as penalty except at the 1-level.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

Playing standard methods. I play that 1C-p-p-(X)-XX shows a six card suit(or a strong five carder=AKQ109 in a pinch) and 18+ HCP. We either bid a suit of our own or try for a penalty. With a balanced
18-19, I rebid 1NT here.

Partner is still there after 1C-p-p-(X)-p-p-?

I doubt that this auction would happen playing my current methods.

I play a Big Club system so 1C*=16+ 'unbalanced' or 18+ balanced.

Regards,
Robert

[beatrix45]

2♣ = 10
anything else = 0

Partner didn't redouble or jump. His hand is not well defined as yet, but clearly our side is not going anywhere.