[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: EW Scoring: IMP

♠ QT2 ♥ AJ98 ♦ A83 ♣ Q97

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♣
 1NT   Dbl   2♥!   Pass
 2♠    Pass  Pass  Pass
 

And another one... I thought 3♥ was too much and I had good defense against ♠, West had shown 15-17 points...

[pclayton]

At least double 2♥; pard may have the right hand for hearts at the 3 level.

Is pard's pass forcing? In principle, yes. However, I see over and over these auctions being passed out. Nothing is appealing about bidding over 2♠ with this hand, but if you trust your pard not to make doubles of a 1N overcall with a 7 count, try 2N.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

as Peter has mentioned, Partners pass of 2S
was forcing, and the double of 1 NT did not
promise hearts, i.e. you have no reason to
bid 3H.

Dbl and see what develops.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[plaur]

Do you have any agreement what the Dbl shows? I play it as 'points', penalty. I would not assume it was negative unless agreed beforehand. So I double 2♥ and I double 2♠, but I would certainly be nervous about giving them a vul game!

[mikeh]

I would double 2♥, on the basis that it doesn't show any extras but shows a decent suit. Partner has asked us to co-operate in penalizing the opps: he cannot logically have a hand that wants to penalize 1N yet defend passively at the 2-level of a suit... so he expects us to help him out here.

Then he can decide what to do over 2♠.

I suspect the pass was made because of the ugly minimum hand. However, partner, when doubling 1N, had no expectation of anything more than what you hold.... I am sure that he was hoping for a better hand, but he certainly should not be doubling on the basis that you will have one.

So double of 2♥ merely says that you can defend 2♥ based on a decent 4 card holding in the suit.

Once you've passed 2♥, partner's pass of 2♠ is, unfortunately, forcing. I say unfortunately because the auction strongly suggests that you are about to be floundering. You probably should double, and in tempo if at all possible, since a slow double, followed by a pull by partner, will look ugly and be severely frowned upon. One thing you CANNOT do is to bid 3♥.

BTW, the double is penalty: I know of absolutely NO good player who would think it otherwise

[P_Marlowe]

mikeh, on Oct 5 2006, 04:52 PM, said:

<snip>
BTW, the double is penalty: I know of absolutely NO good player who would think it otherwise
<snip>

Hi,

I agree, the double is for penalty, but since Pass was forcing,
the double is not pure penalty, it is simply an reopening,
most of the time (as in the given case) made on a bal. hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

Thanks , the comments are very helpful. I knew I was in trouble after passing 2♥. Where can I look up more of these types of hands, does the double here have a name?

ty
jb

[inquiry]

jillybean2, on Oct 6 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

Thanks , the comments are very helpful. I knew I was in trouble after passing 2♥. Where can I look up more of these types of hands, does the double here have a name?

ty
jb

This double shows hearts, and is referred to commonly as a "penalty double", of course they are not going to stay in hearts, but just the same, it shows hearts.

[HeartA]

inquiry, on Oct 6 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

This double shows hearts, and is referred to commonly as a "penalty double", of course they are not going to stay in hearts, but just the same, it shows hearts.

Yes, I would double for sure, to show my best suit.

[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Oct 5 2006, 10:52 PM, said:

BTW, the double is penalty: I know of absolutely NO good player who would think it otherwise

I believe mikeh was referring to the double of 1NT (i.e. confirming that partner's double of 1NT wasn't intended to show the majors).

As others have pointed out, partner's pass of 2S is forcing so sadly you can't pass it out (although you don't feel very happy). At pairs I would double and hope for the best; at IMPs I don't think I can stomach it and would bid an unhappy 2NT.

[Winstonm]

When the opponents give you a chance to describe your hand which otherwise you could not, seize that chance.

Double 2H to show hearts, which in this sequence can only be informative.

This hand is much harder if RHO could have bid a natural 2S.

I am unclear whether the pass should be forcing. Partner is certainly allowed to double 1N with a decent 9-count and a good and easy lead; but whether this is enough to penalize 2S or play at the 3-level is another matter.

2S undoubled down 2 is better than 1N plus 1, so the bad result may have been just one of those things or less than perfect defense?