[bridgeboy]

Imps, Vul against not.

You hold:

♠AJx
♥-
♦KJ98x
♣AT9xx

You open 1D in third seat, LHO overcalls 1S, partner bids 2H (forcing if unpassed)

You try a normal(?) 3C but partner continues with 3H. Your bid?

[the hog]

You have given insufficient information for any possible answer. What is your basic system? Do you play weak 2 bids? If so, what sort, are there any restrictions?
BTW I strongly suspect I would not have bid a "normal" 3C!!

[temp3600]

Pass. Partner didn't open and we are misfitted, so game is out and we should stop as soon as possible. 3♥ is an ok spot. Partner was ready to play in hearts facing very little trump support when he bid it. Also, any further bid is likely to result in -500 or more.

[pbleighton]

I play 3C as forcing, so I would not have bid it with my 13 count misfit opposite a passed hand.

Now I have to bid 3NT.

Peter

[kenrexford]

I'm mind-boggled here. Assuming "normal" stuff, how can partner have a 2♥...3♥ hand if vulnerable versus not and he did not open 1♥, 2♥, or 3♥, and did not double 1♠ for that matter?

My mind suggests what 3♥ should be. But, I cannot imagine that partner actually is popping out a Flag bid here (3♥ as a power club raise, 3♠ as a power diamond raise). Sure, he might have something like ♠xxx ♥AKxxx ♦x ♣KJxx, a fit-showing "jump" without the jump, but that seems a tad esoteric to pull out without discussion.

Then again, what could 3♥ actually show here?

[mike777]

kenrexford, on Dec 10 2006, 10:33 PM, said:

I'm mind-boggled here.  Assuming "normal" stuff, how can partner have a 2♥...3♥ hand if vulnerable versus not and he did not open 1♥, 2♥, or 3♥, and did not double 1♠ for that matter?

My mind suggests what 3♥ should be.  But, I cannot imagine that partner actually is popping out a Flag bid here (3♥ as a power club raise, 3♠ as a power diamond raise).  Sure, he might have something like ♠xxx ♥AKxxx ♦x ♣KJxx, a fit-showing "jump" without the jump, but that seems a tad esoteric to pull out without discussion. 

Then again, what could 3♥ actually show here?

I have been told it is not unusual to not open 3h with an outside ace or K.

I can only guess partner has a 6 trick hand with an outside A or K and very long hearts?

xxx....QTxxxxx....x....Kx???? and choose to not open 2H?

[neilkaz]

I may differ from some, but I have no problem opening 2 or 3 with an outside ace or king and if it is the ace that is all I can have outside my suit. If I don't preempt those hands not good enough to open, I am forced to open lighter than I want and keep rebidding my suit, and the opps may find it too easy to finesse PD if they know I have no controls outside my suit when I do preempt. Now if I have two defensive cards outside my suit, my suit is likely too weak to preempt and/or I have more defense than PD expects and he may end making a decision that doesn't work out in bidding higher.

Anyhow..I would have rebid 2NT here which I don't play as extra values or just passed the first time since 3♣ shows more than I have. I have no idea what PD can hold to not open 1,2 or 3 and then bid his suit twice unless he has 4 ♠'s.

Anyhow..I am passing 3♥ and will give lots of thought to running to 3NT if X'd, and then hoping if PD sits it is less of a bloodbath than 3♥x or that he runs to one of my 5 card minors (although if he has the ♠ I expect, he may not).

.. I may gag when I see PD's hand here .. neilkaz ..

[pclayton]

I'd like to know what your weak 2 philosophy is.

I'd say he has some kind of hand that doesn't fit a v/nv 2♥ opener; perhaps 4 decent spades (very unlikely), or a marginal suit; xx, Jxxxxxx, AQ, Kx (more likely).

We can try 1 of two things. We can leave pard in the 6-0 or 7-0 fit or we can gamble 3N. 3N isn't that unreasonable if my read if right; some minor suit honors that will give us a source of tricks. The problem with 3N is that the biggest problem on the hand might be the heart suit. Or we can let pard flounder in 3♥;

Nothing is that appetizing, really.

[mike777]

pclayton, on Dec 11 2006, 12:06 AM, said:

I'd like to know what your weak 2 philosophy is.

I'd say he has some kind of hand that doesn't fit a v/nv 2♥ opener; perhaps 4 decent spades (very unlikely), or a marginal suit; xx, Jxxxxxx, AQ, Kx (more likely).

We can try 1 of two things. We can leave pard in the 6-0 or 7-0 fit or we can gamble 3N. 3N isn't that unreasonable if my read if right; some minor suit honors that will give us a source of tricks. The problem with 3N is that the biggest problem on the hand might be the heart suit. Or we can let pard flounder in 3♥;

Nothing is that appetizing, really. 

thank goodness I know that partner opening on junk cannot have that hand
1

even roth/stone may try a junky! 2h?

[flytoox]

Pass. I dont see any hope for game.

[whereagles]

I'm bidding 4♣. I don't think pard has good hearts because he didn't open 2 or 3♥. He should be something like 2623 or 3622. If the former, I got a play for 4♣. If the latter, I'm done no matter what.

[Codo]

3 NT I doubt that they can double and if 3 NT makes, because pd has long Hearts but values in the minors, it counts more then 3 ♥.
But I wouldn´t be in this position anyway, because I won´t bid the "normal" 3♣.

[Apollo81]

Why didn't partner preempt here? I do agree with 3♣ since pard shouldn't have 1-suited hearts. I don't see how I can take another call here.....I suspect pard is 4711.

Pass.

[bridgeboy]

Hi all,

This is not a regular partnership so we do not have very specific agreements on preempts.

Based on past experience, partner's preempts will tend to be pretty classical, especially red against green. Nothing especially aggressive.

Also, some posters disagreed with 3C bid on the second round. If so, what would be the preferred bid? 2NT?

[flytoox]

I see nothing wrong with 3C, though I would pass pd's 2H since he is a passed hand.

[Codo]

bridgeboy, on Dec 12 2006, 08:34 AM, said:

Also, some posters disagreed with 3C bid on the second round. If so, what would be the preferred bid? 2NT?

Partner passed first seat and you look at 13 HCPS and a misfit.
The chances, that you can make 3 NT or 5 in a minor are small, so I would pass 2 ♥.

I doubt that 2 NT is better then 3 ♣, because without discussion, this could not be some kind of good/bad Lebensohl or whatever, so 3 ♣ would be my second choice, just in case I had a lion for breakfast.

And of course 3 ♣ is more or less a no-brainer with an unpassed partner and no fancy gadget 2 NT.

[cherdano]

I would definitely have bid 3♣. 2♥ is a typical bid with diamond fit, and I won't play a 5-0 heart fit instead of a 5-3 diamond fit. In fact, it promises diamond tolerance for me, and tends not to have long spades.

Over 3♥, I abstain. I don't think partner's sequence is possible for a passed hand. If his reason not to open 2♥ was a 4card spade suit, then he has to be consistent and not bid 2♥ over 1♠. If the suit was too weak, then he should bid it without diamond tolerance.

[whereagles]

bridgeboy, on Dec 11 2006, 11:34 PM, said:

This is not a regular partnership so we do not have very specific agreements on preempts.

Based on past experience, partner's preempts will tend to be pretty classical, especially red against green. Nothing especially aggressive.

Also, some posters disagreed with 3C bid on the second round. If so, what would be the preferred bid? 2NT?

3♣ shows 9+ cards in the minors and a dislike for hearts. That bid certainly is correct.

If partner is reliable, we will have 7 weakish hearts and side values, but I really doubt pard is bidding correctly, hence my pull to 4♣. Obviously, this isn't very nice to partner, but in my experience pards don't always bid correctly (especially the ones I don't play regularly with), so I must adapt. I prefer to win the board than the post-mortem (e.g. showing pard how he misbid after having entered the bad score).

[marcD]

i have no rebid problem over 3H since I already passed 2H ! Partner rates to have decent H and 4S (no opening) so not much chance of a fit in minor.

[mikeh]

passing 2♥, as some have espoused, is a very deep view. Sure, partner's hand is unclear, and he rates to hold a long weak ♥ suit with a hand unsuited for a negative double, but that doesn't mean that he lacks a 3 card minor. Say x J9xxxxx Ax Kxx.. this may well look like a 2♥ bid to him.

So 3♣ seems clear, and I really do not understand any other call. 2N is NATURAL, and you'd be an idiot to invite 3N here.

The unexpected 3♥ call leaves you with no choice but to pass. Now I'd play partner for 2=7=2=2 or some 3=7 major hand or maybe even a really weak 8 card suit. Anyway, he knows you are short in ♥ and he still wants to play the suit...let him.