[vuroth]

Scoring: IMP

Bidding:
- P (P) P
(1C) 1S P ???

---

I know that some people would have opened with my hand, but it's not my style.

My action:

Spoiler

I thought 2 diamonds was the obvious pick. The two most common bids were 1NT and 2C.

2C is normally limit raise for spades, isn't it? I certainly don't have that...

1NT is a huge underbid, unless it means something different here than opposite a normal opener. Then again, with partner a passed hand, game isn't likely - so maybe 1NT is ok?

V

[helene_t]

I agree with 1N. In response to an overcall it has a higher range than in response to an opening.

2♣ is a generic force in older styles, most modern players tend to play it as a spades raise. Even if it shows spades, I think it's better than 2♦. 2♦ is quite likely to end the auction and you don want to play 2♦. If p has a sound overcall style and 2N is natural, that's an option as well.

[awm]

If your LHO was in first seat (so neither you nor partner is a passed hand) then the normal bid on this hand is 2NT. This shows approximately 12-14 high card points, and is not forcing because partner's overcall could be weaker than an opening bid. A call of 1NT is an underbid by only about a point (range is about 8-11 opposite an overcall), and is not ridiculous. Most play a new suit at the two-level here (for example 2♦) as natural and not forcing; for this reason it's highly preferable to have a five-card suit for such a call (partner can pass with doubleton).

On the actual hand, both you and partner have passed. You're not going to want to bid 3NT in such a situation, but you still want to improve the partial where possible. I think 1NT is a standout call.

[hrothgar]

As you note, partner is a passed hand. He is unlikely to have enough strength for game. He probably doesn't have a single suited hand with long / strong Spades.

Even so, I'm not fond of a 1NT call. You passed with a 12 count in 3rd seat. If partner pass with (roughly) the same strength, you could easily have 3NT. Hell, give part a solid 11 count and 3NT might very well make. (It's not like there is going to be any difficulty figuring which was to finesse)

If 2NT is available as a natural call in your partnership, I'd choose that. I think it accurately describes strength, stoppers, and shape. It would be nice to have a Heart stopper, but life isn't perfect.

The one thing that makes me leery is that LHO opened 1♣ in 4th seat with short Spades. You have 2. Your partner has 4+ (some would say 5+). This suggests that LHO is sitting on a solid 12+ HCP. Still, I'm a greedy SOB and I'm gonna try for game.

[ralph23]

Well, my first observation is .... er, how can I put this.... change your style!

Your hand is fine to open 1♦. You have no rebid problems and you are NV to boot and in third position. It's particularly imporyant to deprive the 4th seat of the ability to open and let them use their constructive methods.

It's harder for them if they have to overcall, and it's very likely imho that you would have shut West out. Can he have a good enough club suit to overcall 2♣? That I would like to see.... maybe he had a hand that was planning to jump to 2nt over p's response, in which case you've really put a wrench in his plans....

BUT on the actual bidding, 1NT is fine. It is an underbid, but you've already underbid once by passing imo .... ....2♦ is not at all good. New suit in response to an overcall should show 5 except when you're really hard up, and here you are not hard up for a bid.

I suspect 1nt will end the bidding and you may get a club lead to boot.

[pclayton]

I hate 4-4 in the minors too, but the hand has nice texture with all your points in two suits.

Pard is a passed hand. You can either pass 1♠ or try to improve the contract with 1N. 2♦ is very misguided with a 4 card suit and other options.

2♣ should be a strong raise (limit in this context) in spades and shows an interest in defending 3 something.

[jdonn]

1NT seems completely obvious. The only other option would be to pass, which should work out fine. The fact we pass hands like this is LESS reason to overbid with 2NT, since partner will/should use the opening style as an excuse to overcall on less. We have no particularly good fit here anyway so I don't see why 3NT would be a good contract on less than normal strength.

[han]

1NT is obvious, partner is a passed hand. I'd like two more diamonds before I'd bid 2D.

I think passing this in 3rd seat is losing bridge, I suggest you change your style.

[mike777]

Passing this hand in third seat seems to just make bridge too hard.

It would help now to know the upper limit of partner's one spade bid? Is he passing with 12-13 hcp in first seat since we pass with 12 hcp in third seat?

I am puzzled on how so many can just bid 1nt and not ask how many hcp partner will pass with in first seat.

[cherdano]

mike777, on Aug 1 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Passing this hand in third seat seems to just make bridge too hard.

It would help now to know the upper limit of partner's one spade bid? Is he passing with 12-13 hcp in first seat since we pass with 12 hcp in third seat?

I am puzzled on how so many can just bid 1nt and not ask how many hcp partner will pass with in first seat.

Even if he could have 12 hcp we still have to stay low because bidding 2N would be highly anti-percentage. (He won't have 13 hcp with 5 spades, or I give up )

[awm]

cherdano, on Aug 1 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 1 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Passing this hand in third seat seems to just make bridge too hard.

It would help now to know the upper limit of partner's one spade bid? Is he passing with 12-13 hcp in first seat since we pass with 12 hcp in third seat?

I am puzzled on how so many can just bid 1nt  and not ask how many hcp  partner will pass with in first seat.

Even if he could have 12 hcp we still have to stay low because bidding 2N would be highly anti-percentage. (He won't have 13 hcp with 5 spades, or I give up )

I think a style in which we can pass in both first and third seat holding the combined strength to make 3NT without a real suit fit anywhere is a ridiculous style. It seems reasonable to assume that this is not the style when answering a question like this, especially in the B/I forum. It seems safe to assume that if we are passing balanced 12s in third seat, partner would open all 13s (and most 12s) in first.

[helene_t]

I'm surprised so many say that you must open this hand in 3rd seat. I would say that opening this hand in 1st or second seat is mandatory because p can he a 13-count which can't bid after opps opened. Now p is limited to 11 HCPs I don't see the necessity of opening. 1♣ for the lead would be my choice because I happen to have a suit I want p to lead, not because I have 12 HCPs.

[mike777]

cherdano, on Aug 1 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 1 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Passing this hand in third seat seems to just make bridge too hard.

It would help now to know the upper limit of partner's one spade bid? Is he passing with 12-13 hcp in first seat since we pass with 12 hcp in third seat?

I am puzzled on how so many can just bid 1nt  and not ask how many hcp  partner will pass with in first seat.

Even if he could have 12 hcp we still have to stay low because bidding 2N would be highly anti-percentage. (He won't have 13 hcp with 5 spades, or I give up )

I agree he will not have 13 hcp and 5spades, but looking at our hand he could only overcall on 4 spades. Again we passed with 12 hcp in third seat so that makes me very unsure of how strong pard could be.

[neilkaz]

Hannie, on Aug 1 2007, 03:07 PM, said:

1NT is obvious, partner is a passed hand. I'd like two more diamonds before I'd bid 2D.

I think passing this in 3rd seat is losing bridge, I suggest you change your style.

We agree...I really dislike passing the hand in 3rd seat and would open 1♣ in 1st or 2nd as well. By opening in second seat I relieve PD of the guess to open this specific hand in 4th seat since he won't fear many 3NT's missed.

I wouldn't quarrel with 2NT here, but overcaller is a passed hand and may just have a random 8 or 9 count. I don't think we miss too many 3NT's unless opener commonly passes 12 HCP hands with 5♠ and even then we may not be able to take 9 tricks before we get set in ♥ or set on power.

1NT for me.

.. neilkaz ..

[jtfanclub]

I agree with the others, I just go a different direction to go there.

You've gone severely anti-field by passing 3rd seat. You're somewhat behind those people who open 1 diamond with your hand, and WAY behind those who would open 1NT (Precision, weak NTers, etc.). Scrambling to catch up seems to me to be a losing proposition.

Bid 1NT. If you end up having 24 hcp between you and missing 3NT, so what? 3NT is hardly 100%. Better than ending up in 2NT when the field is in 1NT. That's a losing proposition.

[vuroth]

Thanks, everyone. Overcalls, and especially responding to them, are definitely a weak point for me.

So is paying attention to which seat I'm in. I'm pretty sure I didn't notice partner was a passed hand until after the bidding was over, which is probably why I was trying to move towards game (I thought I was making a forcing bid...) Still, I need to start considering which seat I'm in when I'm bidding.

It makes sense for 1NT to be stronger in response to an overcall than in response to a full opening bid. Given that partner is a passed hand, I'm much less worried about underbidding. 1NT makes a lot of sense to me.

V

[goobers]

Many people play 2D here as non-forcing. Even if you do play it as forcing though, your bid is NF, since you are a passed hand

[Echognome]

I'm going to buck the trend and pass. I don't think 1NT makes it harder for the opponents to compete and playing in the 5-2 fit seems reasonable to me.