[jocdelevat]

[FONT=Courier]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  1♦    Pass  1♠
 Pass  2♥    Pass  ?

[kenrexford]

None of the above. I bid 2NT, weak artificial.

[neilkaz]

kenrexford, on Aug 3 2007, 10:12 PM, said:

None of the above. I bid 2NT, weak artificial.

Yep..something like Lebensohl is really useful over reverses and here, if PD doesn't have a real moose you are in serious trouble if you can't stop at the 3 level.

The real question is whether you stop at 3♥ in the 4-3 fit (unless opener is 5-6 in reds and opened 1♦ with 6) or stop in 3♦ and hope that the 5-2 plays better than the 4-3 in ♥ or that opener has 6 ♦.

.. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

I'd pass!

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Aug 3 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

I'd pass!

I don't blame you, since the 1♠ response is raunchy, but on a bad day you catch opener with A,Axxxx,AKxxxxx,void for his reverse and neither opp has anything resembling a decent vul O/C and everthing splits.

+260 and - 1 PD for passing his reverse !

I suggest Lebensohl or Ingbergman (OK I can't spell..but use 2NT as artificial after a reverse)

.. neilkaz ..

[helene_t]

3♦ is the textbook bid. (Of course 2N if that's artificial but obviously that's not the agreement). I'm surprised that your expert opp explained 3♦ as weak. Are you sure he's an expert? Maybe he teaches it as weak to beginners but few experts play it that way themselves.

3♥ is not unreasonable. Pass is just impossible and 4♥ is premature.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

pass is out, if you make the bid, you better be right, 2H
is forcing.
The smallest lie is 3D, absent of playing 2NT as artificial
it has to be just a mere preference.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Quantumcat]

I pass. There's no game.

Partner has 17-19 points. I have 5.

No point raising the level when you probably have a seven card fit in both suits and an eight card fit is equally likely in either suit.

[P_Marlowe]

Quantumcat, on Aug 4 2007, 07:10 AM, said:

I pass. There's no game.

Partner has 17-19 points. I have 5.

No point raising the level when you probably have a seven card fit in both suits and an eight card fit is equally likely in either suit.

He may have 20-22HCP, especially if he belongs
to the school, who believes that a jump in the
reverse suit should be a splinter.

If you bid in the first round, and passing was a valid
option, you have to bid now.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[markleon]

I understand the votes for pass, but for partnership cohesion, I refuse to pass a forcing bid. On a REALLY bad day, partner will have a one suiter in diamonds too good for a simple 3♦ rebid, and 2♥ will turn out to have been a fake reverse.

[Robert]

Hi jillybean2

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

Hi everyone

This must have been a 'self rated expert.' Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values.

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

Regards,
Robert

[Quantumcat]

Well if he could have up to 22 pts you have to bid I guess.

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

[P_Marlowe]

Quantumcat, on Aug 4 2007, 07:44 AM, said:

<snip>
But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off?

Yes, it is, but opener is still unlimited with regards
to his upper limit.

Playing a standard american like system, where
you dont open strong two-suiters with 2C, opener
can be really strong.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[markleon]

Quantumcat, on Aug 4 2007, 08:44 AM, said:

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

Only if you are sure in which strain you are playing as well. As I mentioned above, partner may have invented a reverse, because she "knows" that you can't pass. Even if partner is limited to 19 points (which I don't think she is), passing here could lead to playing a 3-3 or 3-2 heart fit.

[ralph23]

Quantumcat, on Aug 4 2007, 07:44 AM, said:

Well if he could have up to 22 pts you have to bid I guess.

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

Yes, the principle is true, but p is not so limited, except by not opening 2♣.

Reverse is forcing, so don''t pass.

2nt is artificial weakness signal, so I would make that playing with an "expert" and hope he gets the drift.

Ingberman = cheaper of 4th suit or 2nt is the weakness signal.
Lebensohl = 2nt is the weakness signal

I may have those two names backwards.

[jocdelevat]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  1♦
 Pass  1♠    Pass  2♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

I pass because of points. My lho expert said you bid 2nt with good hand and return to first suit with weak hand. My pard made 4h. Surprinsing we still got.1.1 imps.

[jillybean]

Robert, on Aug 4 2007, 05:38 AM, said:

Hi jillybean2

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

Hi everyone

This must have been a 'self rated expert.'  Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values. 

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

Regards,
Robert

Hi Robert,

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Aug 4 2007, 11:37 AM, said:

Robert, on Aug 4 2007, 05:38 AM, said:

Hi jillybean2

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

Hi everyone

This must have been a 'self rated expert.'  Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values. 

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

Regards,
Robert

Hi Robert,

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit

Katherine and joc, please don't pass forcing bids ! Opener's reverse is forcing unless playing something quite non standard where the reverse is limited and you have to jump a round to show a huge two suited GF monster just shy of an opening 2♣.

Read my earlier post and hope that your pass doesn't miss a Grand Slam. (OK you won't too often bid one with those cards, but you'd be in 6 if you continue on, properly showing what ever you play as a min response to a reverse).

Don't pass forcing bids just bcuz you think you are 1 HCP light. Here KQx in ♥ maybe really useful to PD !!

.. neilkaz ..

[ralph23]

neilkaz, on Aug 4 2007, 12:03 PM, said:

Katherine and joc, please don't pass forcing bids !

Amen!

If you want to pass p's opening bid of 1♦, be my guest, but you've already burned that bridge. . You can't go back on your decision now. It was a very reasonable one and you must live with it....Don't pass.

[pclayton]

Look you can't pass - its a forcing bid (see caveat below). While this is a 5 count, the ♥KQ have suddenly grown in value.

I'd make whatever weak call we've agreed on, such as 2N. If pard rebids 3♦ I'd pass, but on the actual hand pard would bid 3♣ and suddenly my hand looks real good. I wouldn't let pard out under 5♣.