[jdonn]

whereagles, on Dec 9 2007, 01:50 PM, said:

mikeh, on Dec 7 2007, 06:31 PM, said:

Double would merely be an expression of annoyance at LHO, not an expression of a feeling that we can set 3♥.

You are, of course, completely right. But I'm going to double anyway.

This is why I don't think I'll ever understand you. Luckily I understand enough to know that won't bother you.

[whereagles]

jdonn, the reason to dbl is not technical, of course. I think it's best if I keep it to myself because it's really a personal view that most won't agree with.

[Edmunte1]

Pass. Usually just not enough minerals for 3♠, so i don't want to trade my -140 with -100(200/500 bad day), and maybe sometimes we can bring them down in 3♥

[gwnn]

Edmunte1, on Dec 10 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

Pass. Usually just not enough minerals for 3♠, so i don't want to trade my -140 with -100(200/500 bad day), and maybe sometimes we can bring them down in 3♥

I never would have picked you for a StarCraft player, wow.

[kenrexford]

Well, my initial questions seem to have not been important to anyone. LOL

So, I'll explain perhaps.

I would pass unless a few agreements are present.

(1) If 1♣-P-2♠ is a WJS, then this auction shows either a constructive hand with spades OR five spades only (and preference for a spade contract). After my limiting 1NT response, it does not mater which he has -- he will bid a simple 2♠ either way.

(2) If, however, the 2♠ call in this sequence specifically shows a constructive holding, then if he would double with a maximum, I'll pass.

(3) If partner will not double with a maximum, but has shown a constructive hand, then I'll bite at 3♠. Although I like the Kxxx in hearts, I don't like the overall chances against 3♥. But, I do like my overall chances in 3♠ opposite that hand (something like ♠AQxxxx ♥x ♦J10x ♣K9x works really well).

BTW -- this type of problem (1♠...2♠ having quite the range) is one reason why I now play that an immediate JS shows a constructive hand.

[mike777]

kenrexford, on Dec 9 2007, 07:59 PM, said:

Well, my initial questions seem to have not been important to anyone.  LOL

So, I'll explain perhaps.

I would pass unless a few agreements are present.

(1) If 1♣-P-2♠ is a WJS, then this auction shows either a constructive hand with spades OR five spades only (and preference for a spade contract).  After my limiting 1NT response, it does not mater which he has -- he will bid a simple 2♠ either way.

(2) If, however, the 2♠ call in this sequence specifically shows a constructive holding, then if he would double with a maximum, I'll pass.

(3) If partner will not double with a maximum, but has shown a constructive hand, then I'll bite at 3♠.  Although I like the Kxxx in hearts, I don't like the overall chances against 3♥.  But, I do like my overall chances in 3♠ opposite that hand (something like ♠AQxxxx ♥x ♦J10x ♣K9x works really well).

BTW -- this type of problem (1♠...2♠ having quite the range) is one reason why I now play that an immediate JS shows a constructive hand.

1) assume wjs is not played.
2) assume 2s rebid shows 5+ less than invite.

[jtfanclub]

kenrexford, on Dec 9 2007, 07:59 PM, said:

But, I do like my overall chances in 3♠ opposite that hand (something like ♠AQxxxx ♥x ♦J10x ♣K9x works really well).

You don't expect to set 3♥X by a couple of tricks across a nice hand like that?

[Codo]

I would double too.
Reasons:
1. The law suggests that we have at most 16 total trumps. Pd has 5-6 spades and 1-2 hearts.

2. Pd won´t play me for "four solid Hearts". Why should he?

3. If pd has a clear spade hand, he will rebid our fit suit.

[han]

This is a fairly clear pass for me, though 3S crossed my mind (double did not).

I wouldn't have raised to 2S but I wouldn't shoot at my partner if he did.


To the 3S bidders, could partner have QJ10xx xx Qxx xxx?

[mike777]

3hX was something like 930 or whatever.
3s gets killed but better than minus 930
3h passed was a big winner.

Partner had almost nothing.....Jxxxx of spades and some shape and a few other cards.
He played this hand with a bbo rated expert who doubled with this hand.

He gave me this quiz to teach me that I had the easiest pass in the world and to never double insane auctions with no trumps tricks under declarer

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Dec 11 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

Partner had almost nothing.....Jxxxx of spades and some shape and a few other cards.
He played this hand with a bbo rated expert who doubled with this hand.

He gave me this quiz to teach me that I had the easiest pass in the world and to never double insane auctions with no trumps tricks under declarer

Let me guess, he had...

(quoted from mikeh)

Quote

We were not told that we play weak jump shifts, so my partners. on this sequence, are quite capable of holding Qxxxxx x Qxx Jxx. Aren't yours?

Now, yes, he should pull that double

Never understood the brain-dead theory of teaching. Partner makes a risky move, so I go brain dead to 'teach' him. The doubler has shown 12-14 hcp and balanced except possibly short spades. Do you seriously expect him to have 5 defensive tricks? If you really have almost nothing, you pull.

So, if I made a quiz using kenrexford's:

Quote

♠AQxxxx ♥x ♦J10x ♣K9x

would you change your mind and suddenly decide that pass was a horrible option?

I want to see all 4 hands. I want to see how the opponents, with a nice major suit fit and enough points for game, managed to pass one club, one spade, and 1NT. Well, maybe not.

Actually, what I'm really curious about is....

There's another thread about a 5323 hand with the AQ of spades and nothing else. After 1♣-1♠-1NT, should it bid 2♠? I'd love to know if the people who passed the 1NT bid (so that 2♠ is most often either a 6 card suit or a hand on the top end of a signoff) are the same people who won't pass 3♥.

[ArtK78]

I passed the 1NT bid in the other thread and I pass this 3♥ bid in this thread.

The pass of 1NT in the other thread is close. The pass of 3♥ in this thread is not close. And the problems are not similar.

And I would not argue that the 2♠ rebid on the other thread showed 6. I would argue that it shows a suit that is not useful in 1NT but is useful in 2♠, i.e., QJTxx or KQTxx.

[whereagles]

jtfanclub, on Dec 12 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

The doubler has shown 12-14 hcp and balanced except possibly short spades.  Do you seriously expect him to have 5 defensive tricks?  If you really have almost nothing, you pull.

Pulling might also lead to -500 or -800. Sure, you might get lucky and escape undoubled, but even so it's a couple down vuln vs. 140 or 170. Double is the true source of the problem. There's nothing more to it.

Mind you, I would also double (for personal reasons), but wouldn't haggle if pard doesn't pull. For all he knows, I might have had, say,

Kxx
KQTx
Ax
Txxx

(note that I only moved ♣QT into hearts...)