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All Red, MP's, partner passes.
p-1♣-p-1♥
X-3♥-?
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spades vs hearts!
#1
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2008-February-13, 08:18
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#2
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Posted 2008-February-13, 08:21
4♠. They got a heart game, maybe even slam.
#3
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Posted 2008-February-13, 10:03
lol, I thought the poll choices would be 3♠ vs 4♠
I'd bid 3♠. Closer to 4 than pass IMO.
I'd bid 3♠. Closer to 4 than pass IMO.
#4
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Posted 2008-February-13, 10:14
Maybe its just me, but I think that 4♠ and pass are both better options than 3♠.
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-February-13, 10:19
4S strikes me as rash, I would expect partner to X with a 4-4 10 count etc at a passed hand. With 5-5 I would expect a 1N bid. So I think he will have 4 spades and 4+D usually which means we could be looking at a big number. I guess I"d just bid 3S and leave it to him to save over 4H.
#6
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Posted 2008-February-13, 10:23
Justin, if you bid 3, will pard know he's been asked to take a save? From his point of view, you can be competing for the partscore.
(Ok... the speed at which RHO bids 4♥ might help pard knowing what you bid 3♠ on, but that won't always be possible to deduce.)
(Ok... the speed at which RHO bids 4♥ might help pard knowing what you bid 3♠ on, but that won't always be possible to deduce.)
#7
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Posted 2008-February-13, 10:23
3♠ is normal.
I hope pard sees the value in his 4=3=5=1 if he's thinking about a save.
I hope pard sees the value in his 4=3=5=1 if he's thinking about a save.
"Phil" on BBO
#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-February-13, 10:49
whereagles, on Feb 13 2008, 11:23 AM, said:
Justin, if you bid 3, will pard know he's been asked to take a save? From his point of view, you can be competing for the partscore.
(Ok... the speed at which RHO bids 4♥ might help pard knowing what you bid 3♠ on, but that won't always be possible to deduce.)
(Ok... the speed at which RHO bids 4♥ might help pard knowing what you bid 3♠ on, but that won't always be possible to deduce.)
No, but if he was 4-6 I would expect him to always bid 4. If he was 4351 I would expect him to do so on some suitable hands. He will not know if he's bidding to make or what, just that if you can bid 3 he can bid 4.
#9
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Posted 2008-February-13, 10:54
Hi,
Pass, the only alternative being 4S.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Pass, the only alternative being 4S.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#10
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2008-February-13, 13:08
OK so I bid 3♠ and LHO bid 4♥, ending the auction. After the board, the Club Experts advised me "it's not a good idea to bid 3♠ because you give us the option of 3♠x, 4♥, ...". Then I ventured into asking them if inviting partner to sac was a good idea or not. They said "hmm. yea, that sounds like an interesting idea".
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-February-13, 13:16
gwnn, on Feb 13 2008, 02:08 PM, said:
OK so I bid 3♠ and LHO bid 4♥, ending the auction. After the board, the Club Experts advised me "it's not a good idea to bid 3♠ because you give us the option of 3♠x, 4♥, ...". Then I ventured into asking them if inviting partner to sac was a good idea or not. They said "hmm. yea, that sounds like an interesting idea".
They are right about not offering fielders choices (for instance bidding 3S then 4S on your own would clearly be bad), but you had a good counter. Your bid involves partner and is not just a fielders choice.
#12
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2008-February-13, 13:20
btw 4♠ was going for 500
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#13
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Posted 2008-February-13, 14:55
I'm with Justin on his posts on this thread. As to how partner can infer that we are inviting a save, there is a good inference that we are looking at 5 spades, since it is tough to picture a hand consistent with the auction on which we would/should venture 3♠ on a 4 card suit.
And, whether we 'show' 4 or 5, we PASSED the first time, over 1♣: the opening over which we would strain to bid 1♠, for its preemptive effect. So when we bid 3♠, we show a hand that could not call 1♠ earlier.... and many players (me included) therefore limit their hands significantly.... partner will play us for shape and few hcp. He may not guess our hand exactly, and may guess 'wrong', but he will know that he is being invited to the party.
And, whether we 'show' 4 or 5, we PASSED the first time, over 1♣: the opening over which we would strain to bid 1♠, for its preemptive effect. So when we bid 3♠, we show a hand that could not call 1♠ earlier.... and many players (me included) therefore limit their hands significantly.... partner will play us for shape and few hcp. He may not guess our hand exactly, and may guess 'wrong', but he will know that he is being invited to the party.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#14
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Posted 2008-February-13, 18:47
I'd bid 4♠. 3♠ is nice, but I don't want to give partner a problem when I don't need to, and I think this is fairly close to being one of those times.
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