[FrancesHinden]

The Tollemache Cup is the England-and-Wales inter-county competition, for teams of 8. There's a qualifying weekend in November, and the top eight counties from that play an all-play-all final over a weekend in February.

My team, Surrey, has qualified for the final more often than any other team in recent memory. In the last 5 years 3 different teams have won (London thrice, Gloucestershire & Kent). My team, Surrey, has been second EVERY TIME. As I play in it with my husband, we now have 10 second place medals/paperweights/souvenirs cluttering up the prize cabinet.

Anyway, here's the first two problems from the event, which were the first two hands.

1.
We almost never have disagreements about whether pass is forcing or not. But this one we did.
You have agreed that a cue-bid raise sets up a forcing pass at the level forced by the cue, no higher, so the initial 3S bid does not set up a forcing pass over 4major.

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teams-of-8 cross-imps converted to VPs
non-vul vs vul, RHO deals

1S 2C(1) 2S 3S
4H P(2) 4S 5C
P P 5S P
P (3)?

(1) Your partnership style is that this is either a 2C bid or a 3C bid, partner won't (and didn't) particularly object to either option
(2) This pass is clearly non-forcing. You are probably going to bid 5C over 4S in due course, but you think an immediate 5C might show a better hand
(3) Now partner has bid 5C, is his pass over 5S forcing? What do you do now, if anything?

2.

---

LHO deals, you are vul against not
P 1S 2S(1) ?

(1) hearts and a minor
Your systemic options include double, showing interest in defending and setting up a forcing pass at the 3-level; and 3C transfer to diamonds (partner bids assuming you have c. 7-11 with 6 or 7 diamonds). Pass followed by double is pure penalties. Pass followed by 3D (if available) is weak.

(a) What do you do?

You decide to double (maybe RHO has hearts and diamonds...) and the auction continues
P 1S 2S x
3C(2) x (3) P 3D
5C P(4) P ?

(2) pass or correct (2NT would have been something different)
(3) "take-out" prepared to defend if we have a penalty double, usually a doubleton but might be either three low or a singleton in a very defensive hand.
(4) Not forcing

( Do you agree with your 3D bid? Now what?

[whereagles]

1. If you play Robson/Segal style, you got 2 rules that point at pass being forcing:

a. "A cue that forces the 4-level." I believe this was meant for major suits; in case of a minor suit, that should be more like the 5-level. Which is the case here because pard did go to the 5-level all by himself.

and

b. "An inv+ bid and opps are at the 5-level." This also checks.

Because of a. and b. I would definitely rate pass as forcing. Still, this is by the rules. Whether or not the rules make sense here is another story....


2. I'm ok with the auction so far. Now 5♦. Sure, they might go down in 5♣ but I'll just take insurance. Who knows, I might even make it.. lol.

[FrancesHinden]

And if pass is forcing, do you bid or double?

[whereagles]

Think I'll bid. Seems like a dbl-fit auction.

[655321]

(1) Sounds non-forcing by your rules - no-one has been forced to the 6 level. So Pass, which I am happy to do

(2)
a.   Transfer to diamonds, and double both seem reasonable actions to me.
b.   3♦ also seems fine to me. But now? The singleton spade and the heart length both argue for defending. But it sounds as though LHO has very short diamonds and very long clubs. Partner hasn't doubled 5♣. It is easy to imagine 5♣ making. If LHO is 5215 and partner is 6142 perhaps both 5♣ and 5♦ have chances, and there could be voids around.

OK, talked myself into bidding 5♦

[Codo]

1. I think his pass is forcing in the sense that it denies good defence for beating 5 Spade and wants us to form an opinion. We are green /red, so I would pay the insurance and bid 6 Club. I don´t belive in a miracle making, but I hope that this is still a good insurance against their game. I would belive, that pd with
x, Axxx,Axxx,Kxxx or similar defence had bid different....

2. a. I had doubled. Maybe my pd has Clubs, or they play Hearts. But it is close

pd showed spades and diamonds with his double, didn´t he? My hand is huge opposite a fit. Now I try 5 Diamonds. We still have a fit there. And even if not, this seems to be a real selfsuficent suit.

[Fluffy]

Hand 1 I am a bit lost by all the agreements, I don't even know what we have shown already.

Hand 2 I'd just bid 3♣ followed by 3NT, even if partner has clubs we won't accept his double.

[Apollo81]

I would bid in both cases, but I'm not very confident as both cases are styles I'm not used to.

[cherdano]

On 1 I would bid on if pass is forcing, and pass if it is not. I would take pass as non-forcing.

On 2 I would have jumped to 4♦ over partner's double. I think I prefer transfer followed by 3♥ though.

[mikeh]

1. I hate this hand I can see compelling reasons for both points of view, altho my biases tend towards pass being non-forcing, especially at this vulnerability. As it is, I pass, and pray either that we have 3 tricks (and not, say, 5) or that 6♣ wasn't going to fare well.

2. I have no objection to the initial double, altho I slightly prefer showing diamonds because they are so good, and we have zero interest in defending a club contract. As it happens, I sort of like the way the auction turned out and I bid a comfortable (even if 'wrong') 5♦.

[pclayton]

1. I have a theory I'm exploring. Let's say that we have a invitational sequence that sets up a low-level forcing pass. Something like 1♠ - (2♣) - 3♣ - (3♦). We'd all agree that a pass is forcing over 3♦, but not over a subsequent 4♣ or 4♦ right?

When the opponents bid TWO levels above our original forcing pass when we've pushed them there, I think that a pass becomes forcing again. Thoughts?

Playing this agreement, pass would be forcing over 5♠.

2. I don't agree with the original double. The chances of RHO having the reds is so low it isn't worth trying for. I'd bid 3♣ and then 3♥ over 3♦. I'm not sure what I'd do now - probably 5♦ as pard appears short in clubs.

[Impact]

Frances,

1. I gather you play weak(ish) jump overcalls and hence the problems with the some defence but not opening bid at this vul hand?
That presumably produced your concern later when I think that otherwise the shape would have inclined you to bid 5m had you pre-empted.
Anyway now I just say that I don't think you are forcing (and certainly would not have been had you pre-empted): Pass and hope.

2. Whatever you might think of the odds of RHO holding reds, the disparity in the suits is fairly marked, and if you double as you did the first time, how on earth will you know when it is right to pull?

Either pass or show long D first time round for me..

Now partner has bid double which is not penalty oriented as I understand it on your wording (?) but takeout of C in which case my 3D bid is not merely a marked underbid but dramatically so.
In any event I can hardly bid less than 5D under the circumstances....and I have no idea if there was a sensible way to investigate slam if partner has the earth...

regards,

[CSGibson]

Any support for bidding 3NT right away on hand 2? LHO is going to be on lead, and will not know his partner's minor, which is just as likely to be diamonds as clubs from his point of view, so will probably lead a heart. Then it is likely that partner's presumed club honor is protected.

[nige1]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 05:08 AM, said:

1. We almost never have disagreements about whether pass is forcing or not.  But this one we did. You have agreed that a cue-bid raise sets up a forcing pass at the level forced by the cue, no higher, so the initial 3S bid does not set up a forcing pass over 4major.

Scoring: Ximps->VPS

(1♠)2♣(1)(2♠3♠
(4♥)_P(2)(4♠)5♣
(_P)_P(5♠)_P
(_P)(3)??

---

1.Your partnership style is that this is either a 2C bid or a 3C bid, partner won't (and didn't) particularly object to either option
2. This pass is clearly non-forcing. You are probably going to bid 5C over 4S in due course, but you think an immediate 5C might show a better hand
3. Now partner has bid 5C, is his pass over 5S forcing?  What do you do now, if anything?

IMO 6♣ = 10, _P = 8, _X = 4
I reckon partner's pass is forcing.

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 05:08 AM, said:

2.

Scoring: Ximps->VPS

(1♠)2♣(1)(2♠3♠
(4♥)_P(2)(4♠)5♣
(_P)_P(5♠)_P
(_P)(3)??

---

(1) hearts and a minor
Your systemic options include double, showing interest in defending and setting up a forcing pass at the 3-level; and 3C transfer to diamonds (partner bids assuming you have c. 7-11 with 6 or 7 diamonds).  Pass followed by double is pure penalties.  Pass followed by 3D (if available) is weak.
2A What do you do?

IMO 3♣ = 10, _X = 9
I think solid diamonds are worth a mention.

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 05:08 AM, said:

You decide to double (maybe RHO has hearts and diamonds...) and the auction continues

Scoring: Ximps->VPS

(1♠)2♣(1)(2♠3♠
(4♥)_P(2)(4♠)5♣
(_P)_P(5♠)_P
(_P)(3)??

---

(2) pass or correct (2NT would have been something different)
(3) "take-out" prepared to defend if we have a penalty double, usually a doubleton but might be either three low or a singleton in a very defensive hand.
(4) Not forcing
2B Do you agree with your 3D bid? Now what?

Agree with 3♦ Now...
IMO 5♦ = 10, _X = 9, _P = 5

[FrancesHinden]

Board 1 I didn't know whether pass was forcing or not. And even if it was, I didn't know what to do.

Eventually I decided that if pass was non-forcing we may well want to save against 5S, and I bid 6C. It was perhaps not surprising that this was one off (the AK of hearts) and that 5S is one off (the ace of spades and the AK of diamonds) but paying a bit of insurance is not a disaster.

There weren't any doublers, but the passers are best off (you don't have to lead a diamond, the diamond losers aren't going anyway).

Partner said he thought pass was forcing, but he wasn't very confident about it - he admitted if he had been certain 5S was going off he would have doubled.

Every other table defended 5C on this board, so your opponents did well to give you the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2

I think this 3NT suggestion is quite cute. It may or may not work - LHO is 6025 but might view to lead a diamond...

The winning action is to pass or double, and take 5C one off.
My partner had this hand and bid 5D. Partner has

AKJxx
Axx
xxx
xx

and might have doubled 5C, but was a little worried it was making (the heart void is not a surprise).

5D went off when they found the best defence of club lead, heart ruff. One set of team-mates let through 5D, the other two played in 5C.