[Winstonm]

Emphasis added.

Quote

Who Speaks for Islam," by John L. Esposito of Georgetown University and Dalia Mogahed of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.

The book analyzes the results of a global survey of 1 billion Muslims carried out in recent years, representing more than 90 percent of all Muslims in the world. It is published by Gallup Press....

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The survey and book offer a number of important insights based on intensive field research, not preconceptions distorted by political violence and politicians who deliberately play on people's fears and ignorance. What was the single most important conclusion the authors drew from their work? "The conflict between the Muslim and Western communities is far from inevitable. It is more about policy than principles."

The only U.S. politician I have heard make this same claim is Ron Paul.

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But they added a critical thought: "However, until and unless decision-makers listen directly to the people and gain an accurate understanding of this conflict, extremists on all sides will continue to gain ground."

Still there is real risk.

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Here are some of its key conclusions, as summarized by the authors:

(Nmbered for ease of seperation - no numbers in the original text.)

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1) Muslims differentiate between different Western countries, criticizing or celebrating them on the basis of their politics, not their religion or culture.
2) The vast majority of Muslims asked about their future dreams usually speak of getting a good job, not engaging in jihad.
3) Muslims and Americans are equally likely to reject attacks on civilians as morally unjustified.
4) Those who condone acts of terrorism are a minority and are no more likely to be religious than the rest of the population.
5) What Muslims say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values - the same responses given by Americans.
6) Muslim women want equal rights and religion in their societies. Muslims are most offended by Western disrespect for Islam and for Muslims.
7) Majorities of Muslims want religion to be a source of law, but they do not want religious leaders to play a direct role in governance or crafting constitutions.

Interesting and useful information. The world clash of civilizations doesn't seem to be a valid concern - nor a worldwide wish for Islamic domination.

[kenrexford]

Well, if the polls suggest that the majority of Muslims do not support blowing up buildings, then I suppose that will convince the extremists to stop doing that.

[Winstonm]

kenrexford, on Feb 27 2008, 09:59 PM, said:

Well, if the polls suggest that the majority of Muslims do not support blowing up buildings, then I suppose that will convince the extremists to stop doing that.

You seemed to have skipped over #4:

Quote: "4) Those who condone acts of terrorism are a minority and are no more likely to be religious than the rest of the population."

This sounds more like "political fanatacism" than religious.

[TimG]

Winstonm, on Feb 27 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

The book analyzes the results of a global survey of 1 billion Muslims carried out in recent years, representing more than 90 percent of all Muslims in the world. It is published by Gallup Press....

I find this rather staggering. A survey of 1 billion individuals?

[Winstonm]

TimG, on Feb 27 2008, 10:30 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Feb 27 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

The book analyzes the results of a global survey of 1 billion Muslims carried out in recent years, representing more than 90 percent of all Muslims in the world. It is published by Gallup Press....

I find this rather staggering. A survey of 1 billion individuals?

Yes, somewhat a staggering number - of, course, it took years and more than just the two authors.

[barmar]

kenrexford, on Feb 27 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

Well, if the polls suggest that the majority of Muslims do not support blowing up buildings, then I suppose that will convince the extremists to stop doing that.

The same way that all the Cubans seeking refuge in America convinced Castro to change his government's policies?

[Winstonm]

I find these last three summaries intriguing:

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5) What Muslims say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values - the same responses given by Americans.

This sounds like it could have come from the Moral Majority.

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6) Muslim women want equal rights and religion in their societies.

This reminds me of the biblical teachings for woman to be subservient - seems women across the world are sick of that idea.

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7) Majorities of Muslims want religion to be a source of law, but they do not want religious leaders to play a direct role in governance or crafting constitutions.

Once again, this seem extremely close to the Moral Majority viewpoint.

Curious to me there seems more similarities than differences between the Christian Right and the average Muslim.

[helene_t]

TimG, on Feb 28 2008, 04:30 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Feb 27 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

The book analyzes the results of a global survey of 1 billion Muslims carried out in recent years, representing more than 90 percent of all Muslims in the world. It is published by Gallup Press....

I find this rather staggering. A survey of 1 billion individuals?

I think it is just a bad phrasing, meant as "representative for 1 billion Moslems". I.e. in some countries the survey could not be taken for some practical reasons.

[TimG]

Winstonm, on Feb 28 2008, 12:51 AM, said:

Quote

5) What Muslims say they least admire about the West is its perceived moral decay and breakdown of traditional values - the same responses given by Americans.

This sounds like it could have come from the Moral Majority.

But, "traditional values" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to both groups.

[helene_t]

TimG, on Feb 28 2008, 02:19 PM, said:

But, "traditional values" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to both groups.

Or to different individuals. The break-down of traditional values could refer to anything from Guantanamo to left-handed writing, I suppose.

[TimG]

helene_t, on Feb 28 2008, 05:55 AM, said:

TimG, on Feb 28 2008, 04:30 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Feb 27 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

The book analyzes the results of a global survey of 1 billion Muslims carried out in recent years, representing more than 90 percent of all Muslims in the world. It is published by Gallup Press....

I find this rather staggering. A survey of 1 billion individuals?

I think it is just a bad phrasing, meant as "representative for 1 billion Moslems". I.e. in some countries the survey could not be taken for some practical reasons.

Yes, I suspect they surveyed individuals in Muslim communities with a total population of about one billion. That is, there were only a tiny fraction of one billion surveys actually taken, but they represent that many individuals.

Not sure it really makes a difference in the results, but it sure puts the effort in a different light.

[helene_t]

TimG, on Feb 28 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

Not sure it really makes a difference in the results, but it sure puts the effort in a different light.

Well it does beg the question if they were really representative. Certainly the voices of those who refused to give interviews cannot be heard. Also possibly those who could not be interviewed for various practical reasons. But this is pure speculation. Hopefully the authors did what they could to make the sample representative, but you can never rules out all sampling bias.

[pclayton]

LOL this is very predictable and is basically what I hear from my friends from Kuwait, Iraq and Lebanon.

Do you have any Muslims in Sand Springs?

Google "muslim population worldwide" and you'll find about 1.6 BB. I really doubt they asked 60% of those.

[goodwintr]

[QUOTE] (helene_t) Also possibly those who could not be interviewed for various practical reasons.

I like that, "various practical reasons."

tlg

[pclayton]

[quote name='goodwintr' date='Feb 28 2008, 08:15 AM'] [QUOTE] (helene_t) Also possibly those who could not be interviewed for various practical reasons.

I like that, "various practical reasons."

tlg [/quote]
I wonder how the Gallup pollster found Osama...

[Winstonm]

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Do you have any Muslims in Sand Springs?

Hey, Phil. I honestly don't know because I don't know anyone here other than the inlaws. I doubt a high concentration, though.

I'm simply trying to find out the middle ground - some might call it truth, but that is a matter of perspective.

We have heard the about the threats from Islam - and I listen to that side and see some reason for concern.

But there is another side to this argument, and one here in the U.S. about which we hear almost nothing.

I'd simply like to determine for myself what is most likely accurate. So far, it appears to me that there is little to fear from the Muslim religion, but there are extreme elements who, if they gain power, will be dangerous - but that may have as much to do with political views as religious views. That is unclear.

[mike777]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Black_Stone

I was reading a book about Muslims in Spain and the subject about the Black Stone and its history throughout the centuries came up. I found it interesting and hope others do.

"The Black Stone (called الحجر الأسود al-Hajar-ul-Aswad in Arabic) is a Muslim object of reverence, which according to Islamic tradition dates back to the time of Adam and Eve. It is the eastern cornerstone of the Kaaba, the ancient sacred stone building towards which Muslims pray, in the center of Masjid al-Haram, the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.[1] The Stone is roughly 30 cm (12 in.) in diameter, and 1.5 meters (5 ft.) above the ground.[2]

When pilgrims circle the Kaaba as part of the Tawaf ritual of the Hajj, many of them try, if possible, to stop and kiss the Black Stone, emulating the kiss that it received from Muhammad.[3] If they cannot reach it, they are to point to it on each of their seven circuits around the Kaaba.[4]

The Stone is broken into a number of pieces from damage which was inflicted during the Middle Ages. It is now held together by a silver frame, which is fastened by silver nails to the Stone. Some devout Muslims believe that the stone should be less accessible to the general public."


I would love to see a movie about this history or it relevence in current muslim culture.

[kenberg]

I am sure that most Muslims, like most X's, whatever X may be, don't want to blow anything up, most especially including themselves. The history of the world seems to indicate that, nonetheless, keeping humans from slaughtering each other is easier said than done.

Reminding people that Muslims, in day to day living with ordinary people, have aspirations pretty similar to the rest of us is of course a good thing to be doing, I am just not all that optimistic about where we are all headed.