[luis]

I had several good results with the adition of a simple convention over our Multi-2d bid:

4c = I want to play the hand in either major, please transfer to your major.
4d = hearts
4h = spades

This allows the strong hand to play 4M when he can play in both majors. With a simple direct bid at the 4 level.
I think this is far better than a 4h pass/correct

[Free]

So what is a 4♥ response? Or is it a typo and do you mean that 4♥ shows spades?

[inquiry]

I have to admit I like Luis's idea here... but that is because I play something very similiar.

2♦-?
     2♥ = pass/correct
     2♠=pass/correct but with interest in ♥'s
     2NT = forcing "inquiry"
     3♣ = natural and forcing
     3♦ = natural and forcing
     3♥ = 3♥'s and 3/4 ♠ pass/correct
     3♠ = 3♠, 4+♥ pass/correct
     3NT = tada... 4/4 in majors, pass/correct (partner can be big balanced)
     4♣ = 4♠ and 5♥,
     4♦ = 5♠ and 4 ♥,
     4♥ = i want to play 4♥, NOT PASS/CORRECT
     4♠ = I want to play 4♠, NOT PASS/CORRECT

There is nothing worse than to pick up a great hand with 4♥ almost cold in your hand and hear your partner open 2♦... if you bid 4♥ silly partner will "correct" to 4♠ every darn time if you don't have an agreement like this.

Ben

[luis]

Free, on Mar 4 2004, 06:21 PM, said:

So what is a 4♥ response? Or is it a typo and do you mean that 4♥ shows spades?

Yes 4h show spades. Tks Free (corrected)
The idea is to make opener transfer to his suit so you can play it.

[hrothgar]

luis, on Mar 4 2004, 09:58 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 4 2004, 06:21 PM, said:

So what is a 4♥ response?  Or is it a typo and do you mean that 4♥ shows spades?

Yes 4h show spades. Tks Free (corrected)
The idea is to make opener transfer to his suit so you can play it.

I prefer the "traditional" interpretation that 4H is pass or correct.

Using the 4C bid to ask for opener's major gives the opponents far too many chances to enter the bidding, double for a lead, and otherwise mess arround with our auction.

Furthermore, it is unclear to me that responder will always have a big balanced hand when he blasts to 4H. Why can't he have a preemptive raise in either major? You could conceivably argue that opener should bid 4H with preemptive raises and 4C with strong raises, however, allows the opponent's to complete muhc more effectively over the 2D - 4H raise.

In short, I don't like this idea.

[BTW, I accidentally sent this same message as a report to the moderator
Please ignore the user error]

[inquiry]

hrothgar, on Mar 4 2004, 02:09 PM, said:

[BTW, I accidentally sent this same message as a report to the moderator. Please ignore the user error]

I get this kind of "report" frequently... hehehe.. np

[luis]

hrothgar, on Mar 4 2004, 07:09 PM, said:

luis, on Mar 4 2004, 09:58 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 4 2004, 06:21 PM, said:

So what is a 4♥ response?  Or is it a typo and do you mean that 4♥ shows spades?

Yes 4h show spades. Tks Free (corrected)
The idea is to make opener transfer to his suit so you can play it.

I prefer the "traditional" interpretation that 4H is pass or correct.

Using the 4C bid to ask for opener's major gives the opponents far too many chances to enter the bidding, double for a lead, and otherwise mess arround with our auction.

Furthermore, it is unclear to me that responder will always have a big balanced hand when he blasts to 4H. Why can't he have a preemptive raise in either major? You could conceivably argue that opener should bid 4H with preemptive raises and 4C with strong raises, however, allows the opponent's to complete muhc more effectively over the 2D - 4H raise.

In short, I don't like this idea.

[BTW, I accidentally sent this same message as a report to the moderator
Please ignore the user error]

Richard, You can keep 4h as pass/correct and play 4c as I described.
So you can play from your side when you need.

It's not only for balanced hands, can be extremely useful when you must protect an unguarded King from being crossed on the lead

eXample:

Qx
JTx
AKQxx
Kx

Don't you want to play 4h or 4s from your side ?

[hrothgar]

As I noted originally, there is a cost to using 4C as a transfer into 4M, while reserving 4H as pass or correct.

By excluding hand types from the immediate 4H response you increase the definition of the hand type and make it easier to compete.

>Qx
>JTx
>AKQxx
>Kx
>
>Don't you want to play 4h or 4s from your side ?

Yes. But the issue at hand is whether that type of benefit is worth the costs that it imposes on the rest of the the system. In this case,

You allow enormous opportunities for lead directing double

You allow the opponents multiple opportunities to clarify their hand strength (direct action as opposed to backing into the auction)

You decrease the effectiveness of the direct 4H raise.

You like your approach. Fine and dandy. I can't prove that you are wrong, but my gut says that the costs outweigh the benefits.

I'm going to continue to bid an immediate 4H and leave them with a blind opening lead. Odds are that they'll lead Diamonds anyway [Not like either of them have an honor to underlead]

[inquiry]

---

How do you bid this playing your version of Multi when partner opens 2D and they double?

If you bid 4♥, what is your partner going to bid?

If you bid 2NT, and lefty bids 4♦ back to you, what are you going to bid?

These hands happen. I like the ability to bid 4♥ to play... to heck with partners pathetic 6 card ♠ suit. :-)

[luis]

inquiry, on Mar 4 2004, 08:31 PM, said:

---

How do you bid this playing your version of Multi when partner opens 2D and they double?

If you bid 4♥, what is your partner going to bid?

If you bid 2NT, and lefty bids 4♦ back to you, what are you going to bid?

These hands happen. I like the ability to bid 4♥ to play... to heck with partners pathetic 6 card ♠ suit. :-)

You bid 4c and when pd "transfers" to spades with 4h you pass :-)

Luis

[inquiry]

yes bid 4!c and pass 4!H would work... but is your multi every anything OTHER than weak in a major? Mine can be an acol 2 bid in a minor or a huge balanced hand. After 4!C, what do you do with those?

[luis]

inquiry, on Mar 4 2004, 08:37 PM, said:

yes bid 4!c and pass 4!H would work... but is your multi every anything OTHER than weak in a major? Mine can be an acol 2 bid in a minor or a huge balanced hand. After 4!C, what do you do with those?

4NT with the balanced hand and 4s with the Acol 2 ? :-) May work.

My actual 2d opening is weak in a major with 5 cards. (includes 54, 55 and some 5332 when the weather is fair)
We open normal 2h/2s with 6 cards in the major.

[Rado]

Hi all friends,

I cannot remember whether we have discussed with Luis the 2♦ multi responses. Anyway many of good Bulgarian pairs use similar scheme for the last 3-4 years and it works quite good
3NT is to play
4♣is partner please transfer
4♦is partner please bid natural
4♥/♠is natural to play

The main advantages are:
1. The "GAME" bids sound natural, simple and NF
2. With the modern tendency of opening weak 2's on a garbage in some positions/vulnerabilities you do not need complex sequence of bids/relays in order to play in your Major but not in the opener's : Qx KQJ10xxx AKx x for example
3. The flexibility of "right placing the contract" gives more imps/% than the eventual risk of giving more space to the defence ( anyway 4♣/♦bids strength is random and is based on good fits or on good cards)

One funny disadvantage is when good players but not regular partnerships usually corrected 2♦- 4♥to 4♠- seems the human nature just likes more the complex than the simple :-))))))) (but never seen somebody to correct 2♦-4♠ to 5♥)

regards
Rado

[luis]

Rado, on Mar 9 2004, 10:41 AM, said:

Hi all friends,

I cannot remember whether we have discussed with Luis the 2♦ multi responses. Anyway many of good Bulgarian pairs use similar scheme for the last 3-4 years and it works quite good
3NT is to play
4♣is partner please transfer
4♦is partner please bid natural
4♥/♠is natural to play

The main advantages are:
1. The "GAME" bids sound natural, simple and NF
2. With the modern tendency of opening weak 2's on a garbage in some positions/vulnerabilities you do not need complex sequence of bids/relays in order to play in your Major but not in the opener's : Qx KQJ10xxx AKx x for example
3. The flexibility of "right placing the contract" gives more imps/% than the eventual risk of giving more space to the defence ( anyway 4♣/♦bids strength is random and is based on good fits or on good cards)

One funny disadvantage is when good players but not regular partnerships usually corrected 2♦- 4♥to 4♠- seems the human nature just likes more the complex than the simple :-))))))) (but never seen somebody to correct 2♦-4♠ to 5♥)

regards
Rado

I have a nice story about "correcting"

---

South (me) opened 2d for reasons that escape the knowledge of mortal people.
West bid 3c
North decided not to double and knowing South habits decided to play in his suit so he bid 4h
East doubled
South "removed" to 4s
And west doubled
Everybody passed

South fuming received the lead of the dK, dummy tabled the 6 hearts and the 5 clubs
and said, I don't have spades.... but AK
South said "ruff"
Dummy answered "I can't ruff"
Then I realized the lead was the hK not the dK, so hA, AK of spades (2-2), heart Q droppping the J, making 7 for +1390

Teammates asked "What is this slam?????"