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BBOFlash Comments Thread3 Release 6

#221 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-October-06, 11:46

barmar, on Oct 6 2008, 05:29 PM, said:

For partnership communication this isn't a big deal. Theoretically we should know the system we're playing, and discuss it beforehand. But what about all the other players? Many tournaments (including ACBL) say "you must post a CC unless you're playing <some default system>". I try to do this, but what good is it if most of the other players (who I suspect are using BBO Win) can't see it?

They can it see it. Convention cards created with the Flash client are rendered using an html popup window in the Windows client.

It is a little awkward to display these popups - you have to right click on the name of one of the opponents and then click "Convention card" in the menu that appears. I believe it is the case in the context of a tournament at least, Windows user will receive a notification (in the chat area) that they can view the opponents' convention card in this manner.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
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#222 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2008-October-07, 14:52

fred, on Oct 6 2008, 01:46 PM, said:

barmar, on Oct 6 2008, 05:29 PM, said:

For partnership communication this isn't a big deal.  Theoretically we should know the system we're playing, and discuss it beforehand.  But what about all the other players?  Many tournaments (including ACBL) say "you must post a CC unless you're playing <some default system>".  I try to do this, but what good is it if most of the other players (who I suspect are using BBO Win) can't see it?

They can it see it. Convention cards created with the Flash client are rendered using an html popup window in the Windows client.

It is a little awkward to display these popups - you have to right click on the name of one of the opponents and then click "Convention card" in the menu that appears. I believe it is the case in the context of a tournament at least, Windows user will receive a notification (in the chat area) that they can view the opponents' convention card in this manner.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

That explains why it didn't work when I told him to click on "Show EW Convention Card" from the Conv menu.

Can my partner see OUR convention card that way? What about reviewing the CC before the tourney starts?

#223 User is offline   firmit 

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Posted 2008-October-12, 05:03

I am unable to login - I am using Linux - Debian with Iceweasel (Firefox) - the Flash loads , but I get Connection lost EVERY time. What is that all about? It worked in earlier versions. This also means, I am unable to use BBOTV for vugraph.

Any ideas why this happens?
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#224 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2008-October-12, 07:48

Firewrall in place? BBOFlash still uses a permanent connection, using port 3336.

#225 User is offline   vang 

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Posted 2008-October-12, 09:58

same here (Linux - Debian with Iceweasel (Firefox) ). sometimes i an login but i get Connection lost in a couple of seconds. imho, it has nothing to do with firewall, since i have windows machines behind the same firewall (and they works).
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#226 User is offline   firmit 

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Posted 2008-October-20, 16:17

I upgrade to the latest version - 10.0.12.36 on my 2.6.26-686 kernel, using Iceweasel/Firefox 3.0.3.
It works on my laptop. Still need to try it on my desktop when I get back home, though, but I suspect it should work now :)
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#227 User is offline   sarsen 

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Posted 2008-November-02, 17:32

TylerE, on Apr 30 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

I'm sorry to say I'm not exactly in love with this new version. I can't stand the color scheme of the main interface. Too *bright* by far.

I am in agreement with the "too bright" but only in context of played cards. The old version seems to play cards in a much more seamless fashion, while the flash version reminds me of a powerpoint presentation with emphasis added while the card is played. T I find that flash annoying for my eyes.
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#228 User is offline   sarsen 

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Posted 2008-November-02, 17:58

Comments about Flash version follow:

First of all thank you for all the time and effort you've put into the software and for the hours of enjoyment it has brought me. It seems ungrateful to make suggestions for improvement, but since it was solicited, I will offer my humble comments.

1) I hope the "old" version will not be retired and we will continue to have a choice which version we prefer when we play.

2)I love the option for private chats. But, if there is a chat room, where multiple people can chat, I was unable to find it.

a) I love the "you hold, you bid" feature on the windows version. Very useful, would hate to give that up.


3)I love the find seats for a partnership option when joining a table.

4) I miss the table options of the windows version. or maybe i literally missed them as in unable to find them

2) playing robot tourneys the auto play singleton option comes in real handy. could not find it if it is there.

5) I really really dislike how results are displayed, with the hand squashed at the bottom of the window. I like the windows version and do not mind having to click on a tab to see it.

6) Teaching tables are important to me. They are great not only for teaching, but if you want to replay a hand, you can load it in a teaching table, sit in all 4 seats and see where you went wrong when you played/defended originally. That feature alone will keep me from switching to flash.

7) I was unable to find options for recording chat if they are there to be found. Turn it off, turn off some not other etc.

8) I know the common answer when someone comments about something new, is it's a matter of getting used to it. And I agree to a certain extent, but I find the flash version to be counter intuitive and once i finally find something, i have to repeat the search the next time i use it.

9) I was unable to open the new cc button so I don't know if that is easier or harder than the windows version.

10) I don't like the cards. Even the big ones are just too scrunched together.

11) Will we be able to make movies in the flash version?

12) Picky detail, I don't like the sounds, and cannot figure out how to change them.

Thank you again. I appreciate this opportunity to comment. You guys have gotten so much right and have done a great job.

Sarah
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#229 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-November-03, 11:10

[quote name='sarsen' date='Nov 2 2008, 11:58 PM']Comments about Flash version follow:

First of all thank you for all the time and effort you've put into the software and for the hours of enjoyment it has brought me.  It seems ungrateful to make suggestions for improvement, but since it was solicited, I will offer my humble comments.

[/quote]
Thanks for your feedback, Sarah. Answers and comments below...

[quote]
1) I hope the "old" version will not be retired and we will continue to have a choice which version we prefer when we play.
[/quote]

If we ever retire the Windows client, it is not going to happen any time soon. It is also unlikely that we will be improving the Windows client in the foreseeable future.

[quote]
2)I love the option for private chats.  But, if there is a chat room, where multiple people can chat, I was unable to find it.
[/quote]

At this point in time the Flash client does not support chat rooms. Not clear if and when we will work on this. This is not among our highest priorities.

[quote]
a) I love the "you hold, you bid" feature on the windows version.  Very useful,  would hate to give that up.
[/quote]

If and when we do support chat rooms in the Flash client, I think it is a safe bet that we will support these features as well.

[quote]
4) I miss the table options of the windows version.  or maybe i literally missed them as in unable to find them
[/quote]

I am not sure which options you are referring to. You can access some options that allow you to customize the table interface via the "Options" button at the top of the screen. Other more obscure options can be accessed only by right-clicking on the table surface.

If you are referring to "table options" as opposed to "user interface options while at the table", you can access these through the "Table" button below the table surface.

[quote]
2) playing robot tourneys the auto play singleton option comes in real handy.  could not find it if it is there.
[/quote]

It is not there now. It will be there in the next version.

[quote]
5) I really really dislike how results are displayed, with the hand squashed at the bottom of the window.  I like the windows version and do not mind having to click on a tab to see it.
[/quote]

Sorry - most people seem to like this.

The next version will be smarter about allocation of space. You can change the allocation of space yourself with various "sliders". The next version will do a better job of remembering your settings.

Unlike the Windows client (which comes in only 2 sizes), the Flash client is designed to fit into whatever space you give it. If you have a high screen resolution (as more and more people do these days) I expect you will really appreciate this. But the fact that there are such a wide variety of screen resolutions (and screen aspect ratios) out there means that it is hard for the Flash client to "know" what reasonable default settings are for a given screen configuration.

So for some screens the defaults may be less than ideal. By experimenting with the sliders you should be able to come up with a configuration that works well for your monitor.

[quote]
6) Teaching tables are important to me.  They are great not only for teaching, but if you want to replay a hand, you can load it in a teaching table, sit in all 4 seats and see where you went wrong when you played/defended originally.  That feature alone will keep me from switching to flash.
[/quote]

Sorry - the Flash client does not really support teaching tables yet. This is fairly high on our list of priorities, but it will not be included in our next release. I am hopeful that the Flash implementation of teaching tables will be superior to the implementation in the Windows client in several respects.

[quote]
7) I was unable to find options for recording chat if they are there to be found.  Turn it off, turn off some not other etc.
[/quote]

There is no such option and this more complicated than you might think since Flash programs are not allowed to write files to the user's local hard disk. I am guessing that we will eventually create a web based facility whereby people can log their chat if they want, but this is not high on our list of priorities.

The good news is that, unlike the Windows client, the Flash client allows you to cut and paste from the chat areas.

[quote]
8) I know the common answer when someone comments about something new, is it's a matter of getting used to it.  And I agree to a certain extent, but I find the flash version to be counter intuitive and once i finally find something, i have to repeat the search the next time i use it.
[/quote]

It's a matter of getting used to it :)

[quote]
9) I was unable to open the new cc button so I don't know if that is easier or harder than the windows version.
[/quote]

Convention cards are different in the Flash client. I expect you will be able to figure out what to do by reading the Help files. Convention cards can be accessed through the "Convention cards" item in the menu that appears when you click "My BBO" at the top of the screen.

[quote]
10) I don't like the cards.  Even the big ones are just too scrunched together.
[/quote]

Sorry, but we had a "real artist" (as opposed to me) do the design work for this program. I personally think she did a great job. This might be just another matter of "you will get used to it". If you are using Internet Explorer, you might want to try to hit the F11 key. That will make everything on your screen (including the cards) bigger. If you are using some other browser there is probably some way to accomplish the same thing.

This is another area you might be able to improve for your particular monitor by experimenting with the various sliders.

[quote]
11) Will we be able to make movies in the flash version?
[/quote]

I am not sure what you mean exactly by this question. Some aspects of the Windows MOVIE window are available already. Some will become available in the future (this is relatively high priority). Some will be difficult or impossible to accompish due to Flash's inability to access your local hard disk.

If you have not done so already, I suggest you try "Hands and results" in the "My BBO" menu.

[quote]
12)  Picky detail, I don't like the sounds, and cannot figure out how to change them.
[/quote]

No way to change them. All you can do is turn them off. Maybe we will make some changes in this area one day, but I doubt it will happen soon.

Sorry the answers to most of your questions are either "no" or "not yet". The Flash client is still very much a work in progress. I expect it will continue to improve for many years to come. As you have seen, there are already several areas in which it is superior to the Windows client. Hopefully we will eventually be able to achieve this throughout the program.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
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#230 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-November-03, 11:17

sarsen, on Nov 2 2008, 11:32 PM, said:

TylerE, on Apr 30 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

I'm sorry to say I'm not exactly in love with this new version. I can't stand the color scheme of the main interface. Too *bright* by far.

I am in agreement with the "too bright" but only in context of played cards. The old version seems to play cards in a much more seamless fashion, while the flash version reminds me of a powerpoint presentation with emphasis added while the card is played. T I find that flash annoying for my eyes.

Unfortunately there is not much I can do about this.

Operating systems (like Windows) impose restrictions on how frequently Flash programs (and browsers in general) can update what you see. Unless you have a really fast computer there is no way that a programmer like me can give you smooth animation of the playing cards. The next version will be a little better in this regard, but the technology currently makes it impossible to make the animation as smooth as it is in the Windows client.

This irritates me too. It also irritates a lot of other Flash programmers. I am on the lookout for a solution, but so far nobody has discovered one.

You can turn off animation completely through a command on the menu that appears when you right-click on the table surface.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
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#231 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-November-03, 12:01

fred, on Nov 3 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Operating systems (like Windows) impose restrictions on how frequently Flash programs (and browsers in general) can update what you see. Unless you have a really fast computer there is no way that a programmer like me can give you smooth animation of the playing cards.

I find this rather surprising. I know I've seen flash games run smoothly at high frame rates.
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#232 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-November-03, 12:06

TylerE, on Nov 3 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

fred, on Nov 3 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Operating systems (like Windows) impose restrictions on how frequently Flash programs (and browsers in general) can update what you see. Unless you have a really fast computer there is no way that a programmer like me can give you smooth animation of the playing cards.

I find this rather surprising. I know I've seen flash games run smoothly at high frame rates.

Maybe you saw it on a fast computer?

Maybe the distance of the animation was short?

It surprised me too, but if you feel inclined to spend some time doing a web search, I expect you will discover the same thing as me. If you are going to do this then you should use "Flex" instead of "Flash" as one of the keywords.

Fred Gitelman
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#233 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-November-03, 12:12

My machine is nothing especially fantastic by modern standards - a 2GHz single-core CPU with 1GB of RAM. I've seen these same games run smoothly on much lower spec machines also. I'm not sure how you're actually implementing the animation.

Here's one example - http://www.flashgame...m/play/205.html

That runs very smoothly for me on my work machine (which is even lower spec than my home machine - a 1.2GHz G4 with 1GB of RAM). That's a full motion sidescroller too. I'm not saying that's it's trivial, but people have certainly found ways to do it...
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#234 User is offline   HeavyDluxe 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 22:24

Every time I touch the flash client it just seems to get better and better... Kudos to Fred and the rest of the team!

I did run into what I think is a bug... so, I wanted to post that for you and also put a couple plugs for enhancements as well.

BUG: I decide to try to kibitz someone I've marked as a 'friend' while viewing their PROFILE pop-up. I click the JOIN TABLE button and am greeted with the 'Requesting Permission' green box. I guess they're at a table that's requires permission to kibitz.

A second or two later, I'm disconnected and find myself back at the BBO Flash login. My guess is that the table host denied my request to join and the system booted me... (Firefox 3.0 with the latest Adobe flash on Ubuntu linux 8.04)

ENHANCEMENT:
1) Related to the bug above, the windows client had a CANCEL button if you attempted to join a table that required permission and decided that wasn't what you meant after all. It'd be nice to have that back.

2) Partnership bidding access via Flash is what I'm hoping Santa gives me for Christmas. :)

Thanks so much for all the hard work and providing such a great service to us.
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#235 User is offline   heyrocky 

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Posted 2008-December-07, 05:24

I didn't have the time to get a screen shot, but it's really a minor bug. I was defending 3NT, and we had taken the first two tricks, but weren't getting any more. At the end of trick 9, declarer claimed the rest of the tricks, but the little box in the lower left corner said "12 tricks for declarer". I don't know if registering the claim at the end of the trick was the problem, and I imagine 11 tricks would have been recorded, but I rejected the claim to be safe (guess bridge won out over bug testing). I know it's obscure, and minor, but figured it was worth noting if nothing else. (Safari v 3.2.1 running on Mac OS v 10.4.11, for completeness sake.)

Rich
heyrocky on BBO

#236 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-December-07, 12:04

heyrocky, on Dec 7 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

I didn't have the time to get a screen shot, but it's really a minor bug. I was defending 3NT, and we had taken the first two tricks, but weren't getting any more. At the end of trick 9, declarer claimed the rest of the tricks, but the little box in the lower left corner said "12 tricks for declarer". I don't know if registering the claim at the end of the trick was the problem, and I imagine 11 tricks would have been recorded, but I rejected the claim to be safe (guess bridge won out over bug testing). I know it's obscure, and minor, but figured it was worth noting if nothing else. (Safari v 3.2.1 running on Mac OS v 10.4.11, for completeness sake.)

Rich
heyrocky on BBO

Thanks. Should be fixed in the next version.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
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#237 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2008-December-17, 17:33

I just noticed that the "Table" button is enabled when I'm just kibbing a table in the MBC. Clicking on it brings up a table dialogue where nothing is enabled.

#238 User is offline   HeavyDluxe 

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Posted 2008-December-23, 15:41

Saw something interesting today while trying to peek in on the BBOJuniors post-tourney table. I could view the table, but couldn't see any cards.

I thought it was just an odd glitch, so I left the table and came back. Same issue. I logged off, flushed the cache on my browser, logged back in, and got basically the same thing... Only now all the names at the various seats were missing too.

I could leave the Juniors table and visit others, all of which seemed to work fine. If this is a known glitch, sorry for the duplication.

(Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.5) Gecko/2008121621 Ubuntu/8.04 (hardy) Firefox/3.0.5)

Screen cap @ http://img371.images...reenshotri7.png
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#239 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2008-December-25, 08:16

I was kibitzing the BBOJuniors table yesterday and it looked fine to me, using Safari on OS X.

#240 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-December-25, 08:21

There is a bug in the current version that prevents hands uploaded by the host at teaching tables from appearing.

It will be fixed in the next version.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
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