[benlessard]

I would pass but if id bid i would show my shortness or fragment. By the way i much prefer to show fragment than shortness when 1Nt may easily have a 5M but not too many players play that way any reasons why ?

[jdonn]

benlessard, on Dec 3 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

I would pass but if id bid i would show my shortness or fragment. By the way i much prefer to show fragment than shortness when 1Nt may easily have a 5M but not too many players play that way any reasons why ?

Because you might be 1264, 1273, etc.

[effervesce]

5♦. Can't tell if partner has much wastage in hearts, so it's all a guess. The opp's lead may be a guess, too, however, and that tilts it for me.

[benlessard]

Quote

Because you might be 1264, 1273

Just bid 3Nt. If partner as a wide open major he will pull.

Singleton are a bit more frequent than 3 card or fragment. So for slam bidding i can understand that showing a singleton might be superior but for COG bidding a fragment seems better since it allow you to play 4M in 5-3 or 4-3 fits.

[kfay]

Trying to think of some of the bad hands parter could have and it's convinced me to bid game.

[cherdano]

benlessard, on Dec 4 2008, 09:10 AM, said:

Quote

Because you might be 1264, 1273

Just bid 3Nt. If partner as a wide open major he will pull.

Singleton are a bit more frequent than 3 card or fragment. So for slam bidding i can understand that showing a singleton might be superior but for COG bidding a fragment seems better since it allow you to play 4M in 5-3 or 4-3 fits.

False dichotomy. If partner has a 5-card major and no stopper in your short major, he can still suggest playing in that major. (Yes 1N 2N 3D 3H=short 3S or 1N 2N 3D 3S=short 4H would be natural.)
Also, expecting partner to pull with a weak major seems very bad to me. 1N 2N 3D=like diamonds 3N. Why should partner pull with ♥Jxx after responder decided his diamonds are running and 3N is the most likely game?

[jdonn]

benlessard, on Dec 4 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

Quote

Because you might be 1264, 1273

Just bid 3Nt. If partner as a wide open major he will pull.

If he is either a beginner or doesn't trust his partner then maybe he will.

Quote

Singleton are a bit more frequent than 3 card or fragment. So for slam bidding i can understand that showing a singleton might be superior but for COG bidding a fragment seems better since it allow you to play 4M in 5-3 or 4-3 fits.

Partner is free to bid his major himself as an offer to play. WTP?

Seriously I don't see your logic that instead of being able to show a useful feature on all hands with shortness, we can show a useful feature on the LESS shapely of them and have to bid 3NT on the MORE shapely of them? It sounds more like you are making it up as you go to win an argument than actually suggesting a useful bridge treatment that you play

[benlessard]

Quote

Seriously I don't see your logic that instead of being able to show a useful feature on all hands with shortness, we can show a useful feature on the LESS shapely of them and have to bid 3NT on the MORE shapely of them? It sounds more like you are making it up as you go to win an argument than actually suggesting a useful bridge treatment that you play

I can assure you that my methot is playable wheiter its superior or inferior is not an easy matter. The question is wheiter a shortness or a fragment is a more useful feature.

After showing a long minor (lets assume diamonds with or without superacceptance.)


Methot 1 showing shortness at least slightly slammish.

3H= shortness in heart may or may not have stoppers in the other suits.
3S = shortness in S may or may not have stoppers in the other suits.
3Nt = to play facing a SA, mild slam try facing a non SA.
4C club shortness.
rest is whatever you want


Over 3H you have 2 style options

1a - 3S show a very good 4 card suit or a S with or without ♣&♥ stops/ 3Nt is ♥ stop/ rest is slam going or no stops.

1b - to bid 3S with a spade stops but no club stop or advanced cue/ 3 Nt show H stops and rest is slam or no stops.

I believe 1a to be superior if opening 1Nt with 5M is possible.


over 3S you dont really have options.

3Nt not foward going with a S stopper.
rest is foward going but i suggest that you use 4H as natural and not a cue.

Over 4C you should aim for slam rather than reaching 4M. So all bids a cue or ace asking or soff.

-----------------------------------
my method.

3H show at least Qx/xxx in H may or may not have stops in the others suits.
3S show at least Qx in S and without H fragment.
3Nt show nothing in the M therefore good diamonds or strong clubs.
4C void.
4D keycard
4H void
4S void.


Over 3H

3S show a S stoppers but no C stop or adv cue.
3Nt show stops in both other suits.
4C is a cue
4D is keycard
4H is showing 5H.

Over 3S
3Nt stops in H
4C & + foward going or no H stops
4S is showing 5S.


---------------------------
In conclusion in my method my 3S bid is similar to your 3H bid except that it can show xx.

My 3H bid is way more frequent as it may show a stiff culbs a stiff S and a hand willing to play 3nt. IMO showing stiff is better for slam bidding but worse for COG. Since a minor transfer facing a possible 5M nt opener lead to 3Nt/4M/5m i believe my method is at least equal or better.

PS An important difference for us is that our minor transfer are not invitationnal so we dont need to bid 3Nt just because partner SA our inv hands and we feel that a gamble in 3Nt is a better shot than an unlikely 5m. But even without that i know that bidding fragment as a lot to offer.

[Jlall]

pass

[nickf]

Jlall, on Dec 5 2008, 07:09 PM, said:

pass

Welcome to the forums.

nickf
sydney

[mike777]

rogerclee, on Dec 3 2008, 11:23 AM, said:

IMPs, Red vs White

♠Jxx ♥void ♦JT9xxx ♣Axxx

1NT - 2NT
3♦ - ?

2NT = ♦
3♦ = likes diamonds

You play 4♦ = invite here (standard?).

i guess 3d=pass. almost anything=pass.