[benlessard]

Pass----(Pass)-------2H-------(X)
???

What to you play here ?

Are you always pulling with a void and never pulling with a stiff ?

[whereagles]

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

[kenrexford]

Strangely, perhaps, I actually like the meaning when I play with my wife -- a redouble here would be a "power" raise to 3♥.

[cherdano]

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

And why would you want to play 2HXX with this hand?

[jdonn]

cherdano, on Dec 10 2008, 02:23 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

And why would you want to play 2HXX with this hand?

My thoughts exactly. It's not even a slim chance LHO will make a penalty pass, in fact I would say it's his most likely action.

[mikeh]

I don't have any agreement with any current partner as to the meaning of a redouble... I think this may be one of those rare occasions in which the call cannot meaningfully be made..any hand on which we are confident of making 2♥ xx'd is never going to be played there, so we'd usually want to preempt the auction... and I can't imagine a hand on which we would redouble to show a willingness to hear partner double anything they bid (should he hold a defensive hand)... as pointed out, to do this means we hold all three side suits, and now we may be going down in 2♥ xx'd.

I have had specific agreements about transfers starting with redouble, but that was in the context of a detailed structure, not something that I would expect a casual, tho expert, partnership to use. And even then, I have some difficulty constructing a passed hand where that usage gains.

Ok, on thinking some more.. a good hand, with Hx or Hxx in hearts, but wrong for a 3♥ bid... too flat... and announcing to partner that he can lead hearts safely... and that we think we have a decent shot at making 2♥xx'd while not wanting to bid 3♥ ourselves. A pretty narrow definition, I would think... don't ask me to generate an example

I really don't like the power raise.. what is the point? All we do is hand them an entire level of bidding space precisely on the hands on which they are most likely to need it... we have stuff, rho has stuff, partner may have stuff, and LHO will often have a borderline hand, and here we are getting out of their way. Transfers allow the 2-way raise structure while always bumping the auction to at least 3♦.

[whereagles]

cherdano, on Dec 10 2008, 07:23 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

And why would you want to play 2HXX with this hand?

I don't mind If pard has an half-reasonable pree. Of course, if he has rubbish, it probably goes down.

But he can also have an ok hand, in the 10-12 range, in which case opps might be in deep trouble.

[MFA]

5 spades - 7 in a minor or something like that.

[barmar]

If you use the McCable Adjunct to Ogust, redouble is typically used for a hand that would have bid 2NT if there had been no competition. If 4th hand passes, you use step responses to show your hand types, with the addition of using Pass for the first step (bad hand, bad suit).

Edit: Never mind, I just saw the "by passed hand" qualifier. Ogust could hardly apply.

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 10 2008, 07:23 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

And why would you want to play 2HXX with this hand?

I don't mind If pard has an half-reasonable pree. Of course, if he has rubbish, it probably goes down.

But he can also have an ok hand, in the 10-12 range, in which case opps might be in deep trouble.

If he has x AKQxxx xxx xxx and you are only two down on the 5-1 break (they did penalty pass after all) then would you say partner had rubbish or a half-reasonable preempt?

[kenrexford]

mikeh, on Dec 10 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

I really don't like the power raise.. what is the point? All we do is hand them an entire level of bidding space precisely on the hands on which they are most likely to need it... we have stuff, rho has stuff, partner may have stuff, and LHO will often have a borderline hand, and here we are getting out of their way. Transfers allow the 2-way raise structure while always bumping the auction to at least 3♦.

Well, if you have something tremendous like ♠AQ10x ♥xxx ♦Axx ♣J10x, then you would make a "power raise" redouble because Partner can have a 10-count and might smack the heck out of them.

[OleBerg]

Strongly suggesting partner competes to 3♥. In my case this would be a three-card support and maximum.

As I play that 2♥ can be off-shape (5♥ and 4 in another), partner can double with a maximum hand and thrumphs stacked.

Maybe it would be better with different meanings at different vulnerabileties?

(Have to admit this doesn't really seems theoretically sound, but I play it nonetheless. (Hope partner playes it too.))

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 10 2008, 07:23 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 10 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

I use the standard meaning of penaltes, say

KQTx
x
QJxx
QJ9x

There seems to be a case for SOS here, but, in my opinion, that's not best because opener might have a decent hand.

And why would you want to play 2HXX with this hand?

I don't mind If pard has an half-reasonable pree. Of course, if he has rubbish, it probably goes down.

But he can also have an ok hand, in the 10-12 range, in which case opps might be in deep trouble.

If he's got that the opponents ain't going anywhere, you can double later.

[MFA]

In general, XX should involve partner. If we have a penalty double no matter what, we pass and apply the axe later. XX allows partner to act (3♥ or X).

I just don't know if it makes sense to play that way when PH.