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Natural 1C - what is your style? Really natural not some short suit

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 15:14

What is your style with this monster?

This hand was given to me by a friend in a face-to-face tournament at the weekend. I did have a hand record but seem to have misplaced it so you will have to do without the spots but I think they are largely irrelevant.

Scoring: MP

1♣ (Pass) ?


4+ clubs (probably in a weak NT context although I did not confirm this)
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#2 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 15:28

I bid 1♦ and do not think it is close.
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#3 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 15:29

1♦ wtp
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 16:06

I'll risk 1d.

over a 1major or 1nt rebid I will rebid 2d=game force and artificial, tell me more.
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#5 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 16:08

1D, forcing.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#6 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 16:15

1♦, not understanding what other calls could be suggested... looking forward to being enlightened.

There may be a problem on the next round, but there needn't be... there doesn't, really, seem to be any right now.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#7 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 16:29

mikeh, on May 14 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♦, not understanding what other calls could be suggested... looking forward to being enlightened.

There may be a problem on the next round, but there needn't be... there doesn't, really, seem to be any right now.

1♦ gives the maximum opportunity for the opponents to bid their majors.

I just wondered whether others would choose some other more pre-emptive action.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#8 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 19:02

Knowing that partner has 4+♣, it seems reasonable to start with a splinter bid of 3♥. We will have good play for slam opposite many hands where partner has good clubs (heck ♣AKxxx and out and we have good play for slam). The jump is high enough that it might make it hard for opponents to interfere. And in a weak notrump structure partner is quite likely to have five card clubs or extras (okay he could be 4414), further increasing our slam prospects.

While bidding diamonds is okay, it will often take a lot of calls to set clubs in a forcing way after this. If opponents intervene things may become quite awkward; for example:

1♣ - Pass - 1♦ - 1♠
Pass/1NT - 3♠ - ???

Now 4♣ and 5♣ and 4♦ are presumably very passable. Bidding 4♠ is forcing but it's not obvious it's a club raise (rather than a forcing diamond call of some sort) and it doesn't really communicate the nature of the hand either. Double could easily be passed.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#9 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 20:07

MarkDean, on May 13 2009, 04:28 PM, said:

I bid 1♦ and do not think it is close.

this
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#10 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2009-May-13, 20:28

3♥ splinter seems the least of all evils to me.
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#11 User is offline   Impact 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 00:29

Doesn't anyone like 2D immediately which shows the fine quality of the suit ...sure by standard jumps you have too little defence but it si anotehr advertisement for fit-showing....and gives you every chance to complete the picture whatever the level it comes back to you (asuming it is not a weak jump shift).

This way opener will value his D cards and get the gag when you bid C at a high level....
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#12 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 00:59

As partner has promised 4+ clubs, I do not search for a diamond fit and give them all the space they need to find their fit(s).

3♥ is it, second choice a high number of clubs 5, or 6.
Kind Regards

Roland

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More system is not the answer...
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 03:11

I'm ok with 1♦. After all, we're not selling out below the 5-level, so no need to rush.

And if pard happens to be strongish, jumping around may not be best: suppose it goes

1♣ 3♥ (splinter)
3NT

How do you feel?
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#14 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 03:20

whereagles, on May 14 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

I'm ok with 1♦. After all, we're not selling out below the 5-level, so no need to rush.

And if pard happens to be strongish, jumping around may not be best: suppose it goes

1♣ 3♥ (splinter)
3NT

How do you feel?

Fine and thanks for asking.

I bid 4♣.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#15 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 03:21

Playing English style (p would have opened 1M with 4M4♣ unless specifically 4=4=1=4), I bid 6♣. With Scottish style I am not quite sure but I am not going to bid 1♦. Maybe 5♣, or 3♥. I don't believe 1♦ gives us extra bidding space, opps will be at the 4-level next round.

3♦ is normally a splinter but I think it's better to play it as a fit-bid since most splinter-hands would have a major suit to bid first. If 3♦ is a fit-bid I bid that.
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 04:10

Cascade, on May 14 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

I bid 4♣.

Well, ok. You are, ofc, aware pard may have something like a balanced 12-14 and wimpish clubs? :)
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#17 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 04:19

I 'm never going to know whether it's right to play in 3NT, so I'm not going to try.

I bid 3♥, then over 3NT I bid 4♦. If partner cue bids either major I can ask for keycards. If I play 30/41 and he bids 5♦, I'll surprise him by passing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#18 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 04:21

whereagles, on May 14 2009, 11:10 AM, said:

Well, ok. You are, ofc, aware pard may have something like a balanced 12-14 and wimpish clubs? :)

He said "probably in a weak NT context". For the purpose of the problem I think we should assume it's definitely a weak notrump context.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#19 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 04:27

whereagles, on May 14 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

Cascade, on May 14 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

I bid 4♣.

Well, ok. You are, ofc, aware pard may have something like a balanced 12-14 and wimpish clubs? :)

I am 80+% sure they were playing a weak NT. I know one of the partnership usually plays that way and I suspect they other does.

I didn't ask when I was given the hand.

I did ask and 1♣ definitely shows 4+ clubs.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#20 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-14, 04:54

Oh. Sorry, I missed that part. Then 4♣ is far more appealing, of course.
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