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He marks not if you won or lost...

#21 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 05:19

gnasher, on Dec 19 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

If West turns out to be 3334, aren't we still OK?  If East wins the diamond and they play three more rounds of clubs, I ruff, ruff a diamond, play a spade to dummy, ruff a diamond, and cross-ruff high.

I thought we were told that Sheehan was on our right. Surely he will discard a diamond on the third and fourth clubs while you ruff in dummy. Now when you ruff a diamond, cross to a spade and attempt to ruff a diamond low, he will surely ruff in with a trump larger than the five.

As far as I can see, all the lines that try to develop the diamonds without ducking the first club suffer from the above defect.
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#22 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 05:25

gnasher, on Dec 19 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Sorry, I thought you'd worked out a complete plan. This plan, to be precise:

- If RHO wins and plays a trump: win in dummy, ruff a diamond high, spade to dummy, ruff a diamond high, trump to dummy.
- If LHO wins ...

I thought you said complete; if RHO wins and plays a club ...?
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#23 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 06:44

lamford, on Dec 20 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

I thought we were told that Sheehan was on our right. Surely he will discard a diamond on the third and fourth clubs while you ruff in dummy. Now when you ruff a diamond, cross to a spade and attempt to ruff a diamond low, he will surely ruff in with a trump larger than the five.

Good point. Sorry.

Quote

I thought you said complete; if RHO wins and plays a club ...?

I'm confused. Are you making the same point again, or another one?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#24 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 07:06

I was making the point that your "complete" plan does not included Sheehan winning and returning a club. You considered RHO winning and returning a trump, or a spade, and I agree a diamond is pretty pointless, but it omitted the main defence. This will beat the contract whenever East does not have both the ace or king of diamonds, pretty much regardless of his distribution.

The other point was in reply to your claim that you will still be alright if West was 3-3-3-4, so I replied to both ... for "completeness".
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#25 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 08:20

lamford, on Dec 20 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

I was making the point that your "complete" plan does not included Sheehan winning and returning a club.

Well, since we're doing completeness, the suggested plan was specifically for when RHO was 5=3=4=1, in which case a club return would be surprising. You probably had to read the entire thread to realise that, though.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#26 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 09:16

gnasher, on Dec 20 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

lamford, on Dec 20 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

I was making the point that your "complete" plan does not included Sheehan winning and returning a club.

Well, since we're doing completeness, the suggested plan was specifically for when RHO was 5=3=4=1, in which case a club return would be surprising. You probably had to read the entire thread to realise that, though.

That's funny; I thought we had done the case with East being something like 5-3-4-1 - "If we play this line, how do we make Zia shout at us?"

Mind you, as the object was to AVOID being shouted at, perhaps you got confused. But I agree that McPhee's line is the only reasonable one if you do decide to win the first club in dummy. It is far more likely, however, that Sheehan will have Kx and find the unblock. Three times more likely, approximately.
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#27 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 10:38

lamford, on Dec 20 2009, 04:16 PM, said:

That's funny; I thought we had done the case with East being something like 5-3-4-1 - "If we play this line, how do we make Zia shout at us?"

Then you were inattentive.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#28 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 11:25

The only genuine way I see to make is if someone holds AKx in diamonds and then club ace, low diamond from dummy is the winning play. That way you preserve the spade K and two hearts as entries.

Edit: (The needed 3-3 heart break is assumed in the answer above.)
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#29 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 12:11

Winstonm, on Dec 20 2009, 12:25 PM, said:

The only genuine way I see to make is if someone holds AKx in diamonds and then club ace, low diamond from dummy is the winning play.  That way you preserve the spade K and two hearts as entries.

of course there is a psychological advantage to your play if RHO holds Axxx
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#30 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 18:01

gnasher, on Dec 20 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Then you were inattentive.

Not so; you were incomplete, in that you only considered the lines where East was unable to return a club in your so-called "complete" plan.
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#31 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2009-December-20, 18:53

Winstonm, on Dec 20 2009, 12:25 PM, said:

The only genuine way I see to make is if someone holds AKx in diamonds

Not so; I have already shown also how to make the hand when West has Hxx or HTx in diamonds, and East has at least two clubs.
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