[Chamaco]

Hi all,
I am writing to ask the experts their opinion onn how to handle the sequence I will define below, in a Precision context.

With my teammates we play a Precision without the many relay-asking bids of the full featured Precision.
We just stick to TABs/CABs, SABs are on only after a 1NT or 2NT positive response, and a few other gadgets.
Otherwise we play "natural" followups after the 1 club opening.
Of course I have received suggestions in previous posts to improve this but right now we are trying to fine-tune all the system, then maybe one day we'll be more sophisticated.


Yet, we have found that we have trouble limiting the hands when opener bids one club and responder responds 2 clubs or 2 diamonds with 8+ hcp, unlimited.
A frequent course is:
1♣:2♦:2♠:3♣ and opener has to decide whether to show is 4th suit stoppers bidding 3NT even with extras or bypassing 3NT to show some extras but then finding responder with only 8hcp and jeopardizing contract.

This is much rarer when the positive response is 1♥/♠.

Therefore we have decided to use the following structure, giving up the weak jumpshift in a major as response to 1 club, to define better the positive response in a minor:

1♣:2♣/♦ = positive natural, 8-11/12, at least 8 loser (not an opening hand)

1♣:2♥/♠ = positive in ♣/♦, 11/12+, at most 7 loser (an opening hand), forcing the auction to 4NT or 5 of a suit.

Opener relays next step to ask second suit, example:

1♣:2♥(shows clubs):2♠asks:
2NT = 5 clubs+4spades
3♣= no side 4 card
3♦/♥= 5 clubs + 4 in the suit bid

1♣:2♠(shows diams):2NT asks:
3♣/♥/♠= 5 diamonds+ 4 in the suit bid
3♦= no side 4 card

Now I would appreciate from experts some suggestions on the following.
Suppose bidding goes:

1♣:2♠ * responder has 5+♦ and an opening hand
2NT(asks):3♥ *responder has 4 hearts

remember we are in a situation forcing to 4NT OR 5 of a suit.
So 4NT is a signoff.
The question is how to structure the further bidding if opener has found a fit with responder second suit, in this case hearts.
The problem is
1) how to set the trump suit and alternatively prepare
- a cuebidding scenario or
-a RKCB scenario without using 4NT (which is signoff).
2) other situations where I have no interest in the 2 suits of responder. e.g. what is the meaning of 3rd suit , in this case, say 3♠ or 4♣:
- natural suit looking for slam
- stopper showing looking for a 4NT signoff
- cuebid implying fit

I had a few confused ideas such as:

- direct support (4♥ here) is TAB (trump asking bid)
- direct suport is just trump agreement (but we need then to start cuebidding at 5 level)
- 3NT is RKCB
- 3NT agrees suit and asks to start cuebidding and RKCB is kickback (4♠ in this case); however, even kickback is a problem if the agreed suit is spades (can't use 4NT)

Of course I will appreciate any constructive ideas !

[luis]

Keep 1♣-2♣ and 1♣-2♦ as 8+ with 5+ cards.
In my opinion using 2♥ and 2♠ to show clubs and diamonds is wrong since you want to keep the level as low as possible to determine the best game or slam for your side. As I say "why preempt if they are not going to bid?"
Your problem can be solved using a simple method:

After 1♣-2♣ or 1♣-2♦ use a relay to ask about a side suit and after that use a relay to determine minimum-maximum.

Hands with both minors are problematic in precision so I decided to remove them from 2♣ and 2♦ using 2♥ as an artificial response showing 5/4 or 4/5 in the minors.
2♠ and above are used to show thre suiters, another difficult shape after 1♣.

Luis.

[Chamaco]

luis, on Jul 7 2004, 06:19 PM, said:

Keep 1♣-2♣ and 1♣-2♦ as 8+ with 5+ cards.
In my opinion using 2♥ and 2♠ to show clubs and diamonds is wrong since you want to keep the level as low as possible to determine the best game or slam for your side. As I say "why preempt if they are not going to bid?"
Your problem can be solved using a simple method:

After 1♣-2♣ or 1♣-2♦ use a relay to ask about a side suit and after that use a relay to determine minimum-maximum.

Hands with both minors are problematic in precision so I decided to remove them from 2♣ and 2♦ using 2♥ as an artificial response showing 5/4 or 4/5 in the minors.
2♠ and above are used to show thre suiters, another difficult shape after 1♣.

Luis.

Luis,
thanks for your answer.

I may propose this relay structure to my teammates, but I am not sure they will accept it.
I myself find it easier to remember the structure I have described.

Now let me ask you a question.
If someone obliged you (maybe with a gun! ) to play this 2♥/♠ relay, what would be your choice to solve the problems I outlined ?

Thanks !

[luis]

Assuming someone is pointing a gun at me I'd suggest to play responses after opener's relay in transfer and I really would remove the idea of tnis forcing up to 4NT, 3NT must always be to play or you will be in a nasty disadvantage in a lot of hands:

1♣-2♥ (12+ 5+♣)
2♠ relay
2NT = 6 cards in clubs (6322 or 6331)
3♣ = clubs and diamonds
3♦ = clubs and hearts
3♥ = clubs and spades
3♠ = 7+ clubs no side suit, promises shortage
3NT = 7222

1♣-2♠ (12+ 5+diamonds)
2NT relay
3♣ = 6+ diamonds
3♦ = diamonds and hearts
3♥ = diamonds and spades
3♠ = diamonds and clubs
3NT = 7222

Luis

[Chamaco]

luis, on Jul 7 2004, 06:40 PM, said:

Assuming someone is pointing a gun at me I'd suggest to play responses after opener's relay in transfer and I really would remove the idea of tnis forcing up to 4NT, 3NT must always be to play or you will be in a nasty disadvantage in a lot of hands:

1♣-2♥ (12+ 5+♣)
2♠ relay
2NT = 6 cards in clubs (6322 or 6331)
3♣ = clubs and diamonds
3♦ = clubs and hearts
3♥ = clubs and spades
3♠ = 7+ clubs no side suit, promises shortage
3NT = 7222

1♣-2♠ (12+ 5+diamonds)
2NT relay
3♣ = 6+ diamonds
3♦ = diamonds and hearts
3♥ = diamonds and spades
3♠ = diamonds and clubs
3NT = 7222

Luis

Thx lot Luis,
simple and effective as usual !

Mauro

PS- I have unloaded the gun now