aguahombre, on Sep 9 2010, 08:34 AM, said:
gwnn, on Sep 9 2010, 06:58 AM, said:
I thought we were discussing takeout doubles vs penalty doubles. In an unimpeded auction there are no doubles so we shouldn't bring them into discussion.
True, unless we are making the point that when an intervening bid takes up no room and allows you to make the same bid you wanted to make --it is practical to make the same bid you wanted to make. In fact, with 5-3-4-1 the opps have helped you. You might have been 5-3-3-2 without the interfering bid.
And how does doubling 2C with 5-(3-4)-1 clarify which red suit is 4 long? Sometimes the club suit gets raised before you can sort things out.
Are you suggesting that we play penalty doubles after 1C - (1D) too? After all, the only response that is taken away is 1D.
Your argument does not make sense. Just because we can still bid 2D or 2H doesn't mean that it is best to bid 2D or 2H with the hands with which would would have done so without competition. If we double with a 5-3-4-1 shape partner will be better placed, not worse, if the opponents raise to 3C than after we bid 2D. With 5 or even 6 hearts partner will be able to bid 3H, while if we bid 2D then that would have been ill advised.
By playing double as takeout we can still bid 2H with AQJxx AQxx xxx x and we can double with AQxxx AQx Jxxx x. We can also double with AQJxx AQxx Jx Kx, planning to raise hearts if partner picks them and bid 2NT over 2D. If the opponents didn't interfere we would probably bid 2H and pray we don't miss a game. The takeout double allows for much more flexibility. With KJxxxx AQx AQx x we can double planning to bid 2S over whatever partner bids. What would we bid with that hand if the opponents didn't interfere, a very heavy 2S, or an ugly 3S? And on all of these hands, we'd be thrilled if partner passes.
It's perfectly fine if you have grown up in the age of penalty doubles and are unwilling to change to the agreements that most people use these days. It is indeed possible that you will pick up a
♣AQJx and are able to get a juicy number, while we have to pass in the hope that partner can double for takeout. But please don't fill these threads with non-sensical arguments that lack any form of logic, just because you can't deal with the way the game of bridge has evolved.
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