4cM poll :)
#1
Posted 2010-September-13, 18:13
-weak NT?
-natural NF single raises of minors?
-opening the major from 4M4m?
(restrictions: not strong/polish club, not canapé, not possibly mini NT)
Please choose the corresponding bits from the poll.
010 would mean that your favourite 4cM system involves strong NT std minor raises and you open a minor from 4-4
If you feel compelled to convince me that 5- (or 3-) card majors are superior, please use hidden text or PM, don't hijack this thread.
George Carlin
#3
Posted 2010-September-13, 19:19
Think it is fine for MP - not so in love with it for IMPs these days however.
Nick
#4
Posted 2010-September-13, 19:21
JLOGIC, on Sep 13 2010, 07:37 PM, said:
I thought you meant 007, which would be 111 in binary, but then i looked and saw you meant choice 001 and I 'd
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#5
Posted 2010-September-13, 19:24
Played a lot of Blue Team many years ago. 13-17NT, but system rules resulted in the bid normally showing 15-17.
Not as much time playing Acol, however, we had lots of fun bidding 'what you think that you can make.'
Played a little bit of Forcing Pass Canape using 4 card majors. 10-12NT
Regards,
Robert
#6
Posted 2010-September-13, 20:45
#7
Posted 2010-September-13, 21:15
I did attempt to cast a vote under the intended conditions, but they arent conditions I've ever actually played under.
#8
Posted 2010-September-13, 23:50
Obviously when you actually have a five-card major, playing five-card majors is better (usually it helps in competitive sequences, and in slam auctions where there are fewer hand types to sort). Opening a very occasional 4-card major will probably cost you (in that partner can no longer assume five) more than it helps. So for 4-card majors to really make sense, I think you have to try to open 4-card majors a lot. You figure to win by preempting the opponents more, having less informative auctions, and getting to play good 4-3 major fits at the two-level. It's certainly believable that this compensates you for the disadvantages on five-card major hands.
This suggests playing strong notrump and opening 1M whenever you have four decent ones (i.e. usually but not always 1M on 4M-4m hands). Since 1m now promises at least a four-card suit (and if only four, will not have a decent 4cM so usually a good four-card suit) it also suggests raising to 2m often and avoiding inverted raises. This looks like 011 to me on the chart.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#9
Posted 2010-September-14, 00:37
awm, on Sep 14 2010, 12:50 AM, said:
You lost me here, liked the rest!
#10
Posted 2010-September-14, 01:36
#11
Posted 2010-September-14, 08:48
14-11 in favour of strong NT
14-11 in favour of forcing minor raises
15-10 in favour of opening the major from 44 with a minor
not very convincing either way. the most likely scenario is that people voted randomly.
I was thinking of including "raise a major almost whenever you have 3+" as a fourth bit, but then I thought it's pretty much universal?
George Carlin
#12
Posted 2010-September-14, 08:57
The 11 strong NT voters are 9-2 in favour of opening the major.
#13
Posted 2010-September-14, 09:05
George Carlin
#14
Posted 2010-September-14, 09:09
However, the supposed problem of opening a major is not as great as it seems with a weak NT since the hand will be a 5M or 15+ points.
I'm not personally convinced about major before minor in the simple weak NT system, just from my experience of playing both.
Anyway I think people who play like this tend to do it for simplicity in club games.
#15
Posted 2010-September-14, 11:38
(Everything from Blue Club to EHAA)
The only thing left that I have any real experience with is Acol...
#16
Posted 2010-September-14, 12:13
gwnn, on Sep 14 2010, 09:48 AM, said:
I would vote no to this, but I guess it depends by how strict your definition of almost always is.
#17
Posted 2010-September-14, 12:25
gwnn, on Sep 14 2010, 09:48 AM, said:
I would have thought the exact opposite.
I mean, when playing 4-card majors, then all raises promise 4-card support except very rarely when all other bids are clearly worse.
#18
Posted 2010-September-14, 13:04
peachy, on Sep 14 2010, 09:25 PM, said:
I mean, when playing 4-card majors, then all raises promise 4-card support except very rarely when all other bids are clearly worse.
Interesting theory...
Completely ungrounded in fact, but an interesting theory none-the-less.
As an extreme counter example, let's look at a typical response structure over a MOSCITO 1♥ opening which systemically promises
4+ Spades, might have a longer minor and ~ 9-14 HCP
3♠ = 4 card raise
3♥ = 3 Spades and 6+ Hearts, non-forcing
3♦ = 3 Spades and 6+ Diamonds, non-forcing
3♣ = 3 Spades and 6+ Clubs, non-forcing
2N = Limit raise +, 4+ card Spade support
2♠ = 3 card raise
2♥ = 5+ Hearts, 0-2 Spades, constructive but non forcing
2♦ = 5+ Diamonds, 0-2 Spades, constructive but non foricng
2♣ = 5+ Clubs, 0-2 Spades, constructive but non forcing
1N = Balanced, non forcing, (essentially) denies 3+ Spades
1♠ = relay
#19
Posted 2010-September-14, 15:07
gwnn, on Sep 14 2010, 12:13 AM, said:
-weak NT?
-natural NF single raises of minors?
-opening the major from 4M4m?
(restrictions: not strong/polish club, not canapé, not possibly mini NT)
Please choose the corresponding bits from the poll.
010 would mean that your favourite 4cM system involves strong NT std minor raises and you open a minor from 4-4
If you feel compelled to convince me that 5- (or 3-) card majors are superior, please use hidden text or PM, don't hijack this thread.
The key to a successful 4 card major system with strong NT is probably a 2C response as a two way bid to show either true clubs or 3 card invitational hand.
Also, suit quality might not be that important IMO, as long as the players focus on games and slams bidding more.
Also, a 2/1 system based on the above assumptions is very playable IMO.
weak NT isn't a wise choice IMO if you want to take full advantage of 4card majors, because it would seriously lower the chance to open 1M. Also, constructive bidding is
more difficult playing weak NT.
Inverted minor raises are just better than standard treatment and should be played no matter one plays 4CM or 5CM IMO.
#20
Posted 2010-September-14, 15:41
If you play a weak no trump, you can open either, and I do different things with different partners.
Alongside a weak no trump, if you open the minor with 4M/4m then a 1M opener is either 5+ cards or 15+ points, so you know you're facing some playing strength if you raise.
I agree inverted minors are just better.
I voted weak/inverted/minor so 100 on the system given.