[Bad_Wolf]

Hi all,

what does the word 'deliberate' mean in the definition of a psyche. I have always assumed that it meant 'not inadvertent' or 'not accidental'.
I ask because of a ruling where a bid was ruled as not a psyche because although the directors agreed that the bid was a 'gross misdescription', the intermediate level player did not, and thus did not intend to psyche.

It seems that, if correct, this interpretation is open to a lot of abuse.

Not that its really relevant but the player opened 2D game force (with a 2C 8 playing trick available) on something like AQJxxxx Qx Ax xx

[RMB1]

For what purpose did the TD have to decide whether this was a psyche (or something else: deviation, misbid, etc.) ?

[hotShot]

A player is allowed to bid as he likes, as long as a proper disclosure of agreements and partnership experience is guaranteed.
So I don't see how this definition of a psych can be abused.
Psyches are a legal part of the game. The problem with them is that if a partnership uses the same psyche to often, if becomes a implicit partnership agreement.
People are often not aware of those implicit agreements and don't disclose it properly. That way it changes to a concealed partnership agreement which is a violation of the laws.

Weak player often misdescribe their hands, sometimes even in a "gross" way. But if it is unintended it is not a psyche.
If you don't have an agreement, you can't deviate from it, so the resulting bid cannot be called a psyche.

(Online) TD's ban psyches, because it causes them trouble and work. They need to keep a list of psyches and partnerships, to find if they repeat a specific psyche to often.
And even more troublesome, they need to find out, what the actual agreements of a partnership are.
If you e.g. agreed to play SAYC, you have implicitly agreed to play Stayman, transfer, Jacoby 2NT etc. without being aware of it.
So the TD needs to know the wording you used for your agreements, needs to check your CCs system descriptions or profiles.
Online TD's can hardly do that within the timeframe of a short tourney, and of youse if you psyche and get away with it, your opp might feel cheated.

[Bad_Wolf]

sorry,

in the jurisdiction psyching any possibly strong artificial bid is illegal.

[nigel_k]

These situations are difficult. I would suggest that if the player doesn't know that the given hand doesn't qualify for a 2♣ opening, then it is unlikely there is a partnership agreement that it requires a much stronger hand. So there is no departure from that agreement, much less a gross departure. Probably the main effect of the word 'deliberate' is that it's not a psyche when someone forgets their system.

Also, it would be a lot easier if there was just a definite rule about what is required for artifical strong openings, e.g. 13+ HCP for a precision club and 18+ HCP for a strong 2♣. Otherwise it comes down to the judgment of the player vs the judgment of the director or appeals committee which is going to be a problem especially for beginner or intermediate players.

[campboy]

If the player claims it is not a gross misdescription, does he claim that it is not a misdescription or that it is not gross? So long as it is a deliberate misdescription, even if it is not deliberately gross, it can be a psyche. It is simply a matter for the TD's judgement to decide whether it qualifies as gross.

If he claims that it is not a misdescription at all (and the TD accepts that this is his genuine view) then the TD might rule that the bid has not been adequately described to opponents, and he might additionally rule that the pair is playing an illegal agreement (depending on what agreements are permitted in your jurisdiction). In the EBU, for example, that hand is below the minimum permitted for a "strong" artificial opening, so in my view either a psyche or evidence of an illegal (and certainly improperly disclosed) agreement.

[RMB1]

Bad_Wolf, on 2011-January-08, 18:04, said:

in the jurisdiction psyching any possibly strong artificial bid is illegal.

Thanks, that helps.

The EBU used to have such a regulation. When we did, someone opened 2D (strong GF) on a weak two in hearts. After 2D-P-2H-P-P-? LHO passed knowing that psyching 2D was illegal. Opener was asked why he bid 2D - he had forgotten the system, he intended it as a multi, as he played with other partners. This was ruled not a psyche because it was not deliberate.

If in your case he misjudged the hand as being a game-force then this is not a deliberate mis-statement, so not a psyche. They may have an implicit agreement to open such hands 2D: this may be misinformation, and this may be an illegal agreement; either way adjustment may be in order.

[Free]

The word "deliberately" is intended to protect people that make mistakes. For example, if I have a blackout and make a misbid, it's not a psych. If a beginner makes a mistake and bids 1x-2NT with both minors and 6HCP it will be considered a misbid. However, when I know well enough what I'm doing then it's a psych.

The case above is a matter of judgement. If the player thinks this is a GF hand, then he's nuts. But bidding like a fool doesn't mean he's psyching. He sure is convinced his hand was very strong, it's not like he was thinking "lets fool opps and misdescribe my hand".