[kenberg]

Ah yes, I sit corrected. Phil has "Excluding mortgages" but the article includes them. This makes more sense. $7,800 s a figure I can believe for debt excluding mortgage.

[kenberg]

Anyway, we apparently have a budget deal. Somehow I am not inclined to hold a celebration. Better than default is about the best that can be said. See (corrected, as per comments)

http://view.ed4.net/...TION=1&FORMAT=H

for a depressing summary of the situation.

[gwnn]

kenberg, I have a different gmail account than yours

[hrothgar]

 gwnn, on 2011-August-01, 07:29, said:

kenberg, I have a different gmail account than yours

Ken's password is "Bridge_SUX"

[kenberg]

This thread has taken a strange turn. Not for the first time, I am confused.

[akhare]

Interesting editorial on the latest deal:

http://www.baltimore...0,6569759.story

[gwnn]

you linked to an email from your account. However, because I have a different account to yours, I cannot read that email.

[kenberg]

 gwnn, on 2011-August-01, 09:36, said:

you linked to an email from your account. However, because I have a different account to yours, I cannot read that email.

OK, corrected. These posting mistakes can have interesting consequences sometimes. Hopefully this one proves innocuous. The mail I get is very boring.

And actually my password is Congress_SUX

[helene_t]

zip

[Winstonm]

I am not prepared to relive the last decade with a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican President, but the weakness exhibited by Obama in this mess has me discouraged. I wonder if he would consider the LBJ option of not running?


With the disdain for the working class and the elderly demonstrated by Republicans, it might not be too late to win the independents over again with a better Democratic candidate, although I'm not sure who that would be - I don't think Hillary Clinton is electable, but I am fairly certain at this point that Obama is a de facto lame duck.

[PassedOut]

Seems everyone is very disappointed: 4 Ways Debt Deal Betrays Conservatives and Short-Changes America

Quote

Republicans’ fearful leaders didn’t merely acquiesce to a phony deal. They also helped enshrine Obama-level spending and deficits, put off meaningful entitlement reform and gave the biggest spender ever to enter the Oval Office a solid platform for reelection.

The eye of the beholder...

[helene_t]

 Winstonm, on 2011-August-01, 20:18, said:

I am not prepared to relive the last decade with a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican President, but the weakness exhibited by Obama in this mess has me discouraged. I wonder if he would consider the LBJ option of not running?

I was thinking the same. People must be so fed up with Washington that an outsider must have a huge edge over someone who is in the mess already.

If Warren Buffet is on the Democratic ticket they may still have a chance. Gabrielle Giffords as running mate, she has some conservative views that could attract some borderline voters and besides the shooting incident sells.

[helene_t]

 kenberg, on 2011-August-01, 09:52, said:

The mail I get is very boring.

That's what they said at the University of East Anglia, too!

[hotShot]

 helene_t, on 2011-August-02, 02:54, said:

I was thinking the same. People must be so fed up with Washington that an outsider must have a huge edge over someone who is in the mess already.

Only if the Democratic party is unable to put the blame for crisis and to the recession caused by the shortening to the Tea Party and Republican party.

[kenberg]

 Winstonm, on 2011-August-01, 20:18, said:

I am not prepared to relive the last decade with a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican President, but the weakness exhibited by Obama in this mess has me discouraged. I wonder if he would consider the LBJ option of not running?


With the disdain for the working class and the elderly demonstrated by Republicans, it might not be too late to win the independents over again with a better Democratic candidate, although I'm not sure who that would be - I don't think Hillary Clinton is electable, but I am fairly certain at this point that Obama is a de facto lame duck.

I have been thinking much along the same line. I have seen claims that this deal shows Obama as a centrist, or that the center has won, or Obama will get support from the Independents. Total rubbish, I think. I think of myself as somewhere around the political center and I am appalled.

The deal has all the marks of "Good God, we have to do something, here is something that is sufficiently dumb that it might get some votes". Obama looked totally clueless as a leader. This guy is in charge of our negotiations with, say, Iran? They may have noticed that he folds in the crunch.

Not defaulting (assuming this gets through the Senate) is good. Other than that, the deal itself and what it says about our leaders is awful. We will set up some dysfunctional commission to do something sometime. Are there any grounds whatsoever for thinking that this will result in anything good? No, I don't think so.


Obama will not be re-elected. Once it becomes clear that a person does not have the courage of his convictions, or lacks the skill to advance those beliefs, he is finished. True, Bill Clinton was once reduced to advocating a policy on school uniforms in a State of the Union speech, and he came back. I don't see this as happening again. For all his faults, people actually liked Clinton. Obama lacks the warmth to pull it off.

[helene_t]

 kenberg, on 2011-August-02, 06:22, said:

I have been thinking much along the same line. I have seen claims that this deal shows Obama as a centrist, or that the center has won, or Obama will get support from the Independents. Total rubbish, I think. I think of myself as somewhere around the political center and I am appalled.

The deal has all the marks of "Good God, we have to do something, here is something that is sufficiently dumb that it might get some votes".

But .... people like you will probably still vote for Obama if the alternative is a Palin/Bachmann ticket or similar? Or will they vote for some micky-mouse independent candidate that runs only in their own state? Or will they emigrate to Canada?

[Aberlour10]

Just 2 european cents here. The only result of this whole budget theatre is what we name in Germany "ein fauler Kompromiss" ( shoddy compromise?) It doesn't solve any of the US debt problems.

[hrothgar]

 Aberlour10, on 2011-August-02, 06:55, said:

Just 2 european cents here. The only result of this whole budget theatre is what we name in Germany "ein fauler Kompromiss" ( shoddy compromise?) It doesn't solve any of the US debt problems.

Here's my take on matters

We started with a fake crisis
We appear to have ended up with a fake solution

The debt ceiling has been raised. forstalling a crisis
There are no real spending cuts in the short term
The can has been kicked down the road

Arguable, the Democrats are going to be in a strong position to negotiate this next time around.
They'll be able to trade the Bush tax cuts off against spending cuts
The trigger will impact defense much more heavily than other programs

Don't get me wrong... I would have loved to see Obama take the Tea Party caucus by the neck and rub their face in a big pile of dog *****. I'd be happier if had a few of them taken out and shot. However, realistically, I think that he did about as well as he could have done.

Obama's real mistake was not ramming more through - including a Debt Ceiling increase - back when the Democrats controlled the house. However, given where we were last week, it could have gone a lot worse.

[PassedOut]

 Aberlour10, on 2011-August-02, 06:55, said:

Just 2 european cents here. The only result of this whole budget theatre is what we name in Germany "ein fauler Kompromiss" ( shoddy compromise?) It doesn't solve any of the US debt problems.

No, it doesn't solve the debt problems at all. This deal did not accomplish anything except getting the tea party faction to vote to pay the bills. There are no tax increases, but there are no significant spending cuts either. This was a bipartisan deal by the white house and the old hands in congress to convince enough tea party people to "drive the car" for Boehner to prevent another economic disaster for the US.

I would have preferred that Obama insist on a clean debt ceiling increase or else invoke the 14th amendment, but my personality is not suited to politics (to say the least). However, to suggest that he'll lose the next election because he did not do so is emotional non-thinking. By 2012 there will be a lot more water under the dam. In fact, the next four months will be very interesting.

[helene_t]

 hotShot, on 2011-August-02, 03:37, said:

Only if the Democratic party is unable to make Fox News put the blame for crisis and to the recession caused by the shortening to the Tea Party and Republican party.

fyp