[Hanoi5]

Red vs White, you hold:

♠KQ862
♥8
♦J85
♣AT85

RHO deals and opens 1NT (15-17), you play DONT, do you enter with 2♣(clubs and another)? What about playing Woolsey (2♠, spades and a minor)?

If you pass:

Spoiler

1NT-Pa-2♦-Pa-2♥-??? What then?

[Onedown]

Red vs White why would I consider bidding? Compete for a pscore? If they have a ♥game, so be it, I will defend and hope my 1 1/2 tricks will add to 4 with the cards that come down and partners contribution. My clubs and spades seemed positioned well.
Even if it goes 2♦xfer pass 2♥, I am still passing.

[aguahombre]

I am told I don't get into their NT auctions enough. Here, if our methods are "DONT", I will just shut up and lead. If I can show 5+spades, with or without another suit and take up all their two-level responses, I guess I will step in with 2S and hope it doesn't get wrapped around my neck.

Waiting around and bidding 2S in the spoiler scenario feels wrong...having given them a chance to start their system.

[dake50]

Red vs. white is the best time to get in.
Their 1NT = scores 90; -1 scores -50; -1 scores -100
all these results are surely bad for us
and they are the common/expected results.
Get in and out 2C or 2S.

[daveharty]

Agree with aguahombre. If I am constrained to DONT, 2C isn't obstructive enough to be worth it. Playing Woolsey, or Landy (my preference), I'll bid 2S. I hope it's matchpoints; then I only have one person to apologize to if I go for 1100. Definitely don't like waiting and then bidding after a transfer sequence, having given responder the chance to show hearts and opener the chance to show or deny a superaccept.

[nige1]

Hanoi5, on 2011-June-28, 16:19, said:

Red vs White, you hold: ♠ KQ862 ♥ 8 ♦ J85 ♣ AT85
RHO deals and opens 1NT (15-17), you play DONT, do you enter with 2♣(clubs and another)? What about playing Woolsey (2♠, spades and a minor)?

IMO,

• At matchpointed pairs, 2♣ (DONT) = 10, Pass = 9, 2♠ (Woolsey) = 8. Here, DONT seems a safer compromise between prudence and aggression.
• At imps, Pass = 10, 2♣ (DONT) = 9. 2♠ (Woolsey) = 7. Now the frequency of gain is the same but the downside of going for a telephone-number is greater.
• Delaying action seems more fraught. If the have 5-4 fit, the 3-level is rather high. If they have a 5-2 fit, we may be better to defend.
• If not-vulnerable, you should bid rather than pass.

Having read subsequent posts, perhaps I'm a bit timid, here.

This post has been edited by nige1: 2011-June-30, 06:25

[mycroft]

If you don't overcall 2♣ with that hand playing DONT, don't play DONT. You're not D'ing O's NT enough to pay back the downsides of playing DONT, especially the +90 you're getting in 2♣ when others are getting +110 in 2♠. You may not be D'ing enough with 2♣, true, but that's the price you pay for playing a system designed to be as safe as possible for crappy overcalls.

If I can promise spades and a minor, especially longer spades, then I'm coming in with 2♠. It might go badly, but everything will - and it does drop them into their alternative method. And their alternative method, by preference, includes negative doubles, it seems, which is to my advantage when I overcall on crap.

After I pass the first time, the only question is "what am I leading?" That auction has almost no upside, and lots of downside.

[Gerben42]

Read my lips: PASS

Thanks for your attention

[mgoetze]

mycroft, on 2011-June-29, 13:51, said:

If you don't overcall 2♣ with that hand playing DONT, don't play DONT.

In other words, don't play DONT. Period.

[JLOGIC]

I would not ever consider passing no matter what methods I played. I would most prefer to just bid 2S.

[mycroft]

Well, there is that. It's a crappy system that makes up for its crappiness by being safe to compete on many more hands than other systems, and hopefully making gains on people having to use their second-best system after 1NT enough to pay for the failures - and really, the +90 vs +110 failures are much more common than the -800s.

But if you don't use that safety to get in on "many more hands", then you get the worst of both worlds.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would prefer DONT, if the red suits would be swapped,
but I would enter the auction.

I belong to the group of person, who prefer it, to have regrets
later on, for having entered the auction, than to have regrets
for not having entered.
Or as the saying goes - Those who live by the sword die by the
sword.

Entering later is a lot more dangerrous than going in now, i.e. if I
pass now, I will pass forever.

Entering with 2C has the advantage, that they may play X as a replacement
for Stayman, even if someone does not play Stolen Bid Doubles, this
agreement is not uncommon, so they may have trouble going for blood.

I hope p will always pass 2C with 3 cards.

With kind regards
Marlowe