[kgr]

---

IMP's Teams, All red
Opps silent
Not 2/1. 2♥ is not GF, but 10+ & 5+c♥

1♠-2♥
?

You have following options:
2♠=1 round forcing
3♠=6c♠, GF
3♥=15+, GF, 3+c♥
4♦=15+, splinter with 4c♥

What do you bid?

[MrAce]

kgr, on 2011-September-16, 16:05, said:

---

IMP's Teams, All red
Opps silent
Not 2/1. 2♥ is not GF, but 10+ & 5+c♥

1♠-2♥
?

You have following options:
2♠=1 round forcing
3♠=6c♠, GF
3♥=15+, GF, 3+c♥
4♦=15+, splinter with 4c♥

What do you bid?

If 2♥ is not gf and can be made by 10 hcp, may i ask how u can play 3♥ by opener as 15+ gf ?

[kgr]

MrAce, on 2011-September-16, 16:26, said:

If 2♥ is not gf and can be made by 10 hcp, may i ask how u can play 3♥ by opener as 15+ gf ?

Because that is what we agreed .
With less opener can:
1♠-2♥
2♠-2NT
3♥ = 5=3=3/2 12-14

1♠-2♥
4♥ = 4c♥ 12-14

[aguahombre]

let us assume that, whatever the merits, OP has stated their methods accurately.

So, the choices seem to be showing the good 6-bagger, or showing support for hearts.

The reason I would choose showing support for hearts, is simply because spades are higher than hearts and I might have problems later about the support. 3H, though showing strength per the OP, does not show the power of this hand, so that will have to come after. It can't hurt to hear another bid from responder.

But, no matter what partner rebids, a simple RKC for hearts after having established them as trumps, might get the job done.

[kgr]

aguahombre, on 2011-September-16, 16:48, said:

But, no matter what partner rebids, a simple RKC for hearts after having established them as trumps, might get the job done.

Also after:
1S-2H
3H-4H minimum
?

or:
1S-2H
3H-3NT Non-serious
?

[aguahombre]

Yeh, I said "might" get the job done. On the forum partner will have everything but card honors and we will get too high.

At the table, it won't happen.

[Fluffy]

its very easy that we belong in spades (♥AK♦K♣J the most obvious), on the other hand if we stabish spades as trumps we won't know aobut ♥AKQ using KCW, only about ♥A wich isn't so good.

Also raising hearts might brig us to slam facing ♥AQ865 or ♥KQ1087 wich can't be so great.

If I think that 3♠ followed by 4♥ over a natural 3NT is some form of cuebid with autonomous spades, then I'm stuck and will bid 3NT, but if I can raise hearts later in case partner doesn't like spades, then I prefer to bid 3♠.

[Hanoi5]

Spades are quite good but they're not exactly autonomous. 432 might even mean JT98 was around.

Anyway I think 2♠ is a nice bid to start with, if partner doesn't show great interest in spades we can later move to hearts but I definitely think spades will make a better trump suit.

[aguahombre]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-16, 21:18, said:

Anyway I think 2♠ is a nice bid to start with, if partner doesn't show great interest in spades we can later move to hearts but I definitely think spades will make a better trump suit.

I am not used to 2/1 bids which can be as light as 10, per OP; in fact, not even less than game force. But, if you can rebid 2S with that, I guess 2H promised a rebid. Seems awkward, though if opener can have an 11 up to 21 count with 5 or six spades opposite some 10+ and neither of you has even begun to show their strength or lack for strength for even game.

OP gives that 2S is 1-round forcing, but when do the two hands begin to accelerate or put on the brakes when they might have belonged back at the 2-level?

[han]

3S.

[kgr]

aguahombre, on 2011-September-16, 21:48, said:

I am not used to 2/1 bids which can be as light as 10, per OP; in fact, not even less than game force. But, if you can rebid 2S with that, I guess 2H promised a rebid. Seems awkward, though if opener can have an 11 up to 21 count with 5 or six spades opposite some 10+ and neither of you has even begun to show their strength or lack for strength for even game.

OP gives that 2S is 1-round forcing, but when do the two hands begin to accelerate or put on the brakes when they might have belonged back at the 2-level?

2♠ is forcing.
FYI:
The system given in the original post is as I knew it at the table.
But in fact we started to play a system of another pair and I still learning it.
It also says:
1S-2H-? ...2S=5cS, 1RF (can even be with a strong hand and 6311).
So, maybe 2S is the bid with our complete system, but I asked the other pair what the continuations are.
Maybe: 1S-2H-2S-2NT/3NT-4m shows 6=3=3/1

[kgr]

Interesting to get 3H/3S/2S as possible answers.
I'll post the complete hand and bidding in the beginner forum, changing the scoring to MP's to make the play more interesting.

[han]

By the way, I don't think that 3S establishes spades in this system.

[kgr]

han, on 2011-September-17, 03:43, said:

By the way, I don't think that 3S establishes spades in this system.

It is in fact a bid that is not defined in the system.
But a would say that it does not establish spade (if partner rebids 3NT/4H).
This hand will be maximum for rebidding 3S because we can also bid a semi-forcing S-hand via multi 2D.

[Flem72]

I can't bid 3C? In my mind xxx is not primary support, especially where, as here, there is a very good -- and forcing -- alternative available. Also, let's see whether partner holds min or opening values, or wants to support S. If partnr is min, and bids 3H you know you will play 4H. Even over 3H, if 3S wouldn't be forcing (and I guess in SA it wouldn't necessarily be forcing), I'd force with 4D and really make partner crazy.

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

edit: My bad, didn't notice that 2S is 1RF in this structure. That's my call, and the rest of the above applies, assuming that R will find some call other than 3H with anything good to say.

This post has been edited by Flem72: 2011-September-17, 10:56

[lowerline]

kgr, on 2011-September-16, 16:05, said:

---

IMP's Teams, All red
Opps silent
Not 2/1. 2♥ is not GF, but 10+ & 5+c♥

1♠-2♥
?

You have following options:
2♠=1 round forcing
3♠=6c♠, GF
3♥=15+, GF, 3+c♥
4♦=15+, splinter with 4c♥

What do you bid?

What I play is not that much different from you: 2♠ is the only non-forcing rebid (2nt is GF as well). I would bid a forcing 3♥ now.

Steven

[P_Marlowe]

4NT would be RKCB for hearts?

I would go with 3H.

We are interested in slam, and for slam we need to know, how good
the hearts are.
If hearts is set as trumps, we can use RKCB to get this information.

Additionally 3H should ask p to start with cue bids, and if his first
cue is an jhonor, you get to hear, if he has the Ace of clubs or if
he has wastage in diamonds.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[xxhong]

This hand is very slamish, so the key is to bring S into picture because of the good suit quality.
Slam can be very good when partner holds SJx AKxxx KQxx xx.
Therefore, 3S is rated to be a better bid than 3H. if partner just raises you to 4S, you may have to give it up because you don't have 5 level safety. Facing a 4 level cuebid, you can just ask KC and decide how high you want to go.

kgr, on 2011-September-16, 16:05, said:

---

IMP's Teams, All red
Opps silent
Not 2/1. 2♥ is not GF, but 10+ & 5+c♥

1♠-2♥
?

You have following options:
2♠=1 round forcing
3♠=6c♠, GF
3♥=15+, GF, 3+c♥
4♦=15+, splinter with 4c♥

What do you bid?

[PetteriLem]

I would bid 3♠. I have a great spade suit and enough values for it. I did not pay attention to methods used, but what ever partner dreams I have, he wont be disappointed. 3 small hearts is rubbish compared to what you have, just forget them for now at least. If partner insists hearts, then you can ask for aces and find out how good they are and be even happy you have support.

[whereagles]

MrAce, on 2011-September-16, 16:26, said:

If 2♥ is not gf and can be made by 10 hcp, may i ask how u can play 3♥ by opener as 15+ gf ?

This is 100% technically correct. With 3 card heart support you bid

1S-2H-2S-2/3x-3H = 11-14
1S-2H-3H = 15+
1S-2H-4H = 11-14 with poor controls (i.e. picture bid like)

I'm ok with bidding 3H now. This is not ideal but is probably the least confusing bid.