[mangosteen]

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Pairs. Small diamond lead. What is the best way to tackle the clubs?

On the table, small was played to the Q with E showing out. How should the play go now?

[han]

You put north as declarer and didn't tell us which diamond was led and what their carding is. The latter makes it hard to answer the second question, and the former just makes it hard in general.

Playing a club towards the king may be right if the lead seems from length, but wrong if the lead is fourth. We shouldn't worry about who wins the club, we're going to lose to the ace anyway and we can't influence this. Playing towards the king at least let's us pick up the suit for 2 losers on all layouts.

[billw55]

Low to the 8 protects against 4-0 break and also protects the ♥AT to some extent. Not sure if that makes it right or not.

[mangosteen]

I do sincerely apologize. The diamond led was the 4♦, won by the ace. And small club was played, and I probably should have rotated the hands, and I apologize to not have done so. However, I wonder if small to the Q was correct for 4 tricks, and after discovering the bad break. What would be the best line of play from then on?

[CSGibson]

The best play in isolation is small to the K initially in the club suit. Assuming you are going to play to a high honor on the first round (best for 3 tricks), you will win 3 tricks when you have the stiff A in front of the honor you led to, when you have Axx opposite J, and when the suit splits 2-2. You can never pick up the suit for 4 tricks when it splits 4-0 because of the spots you are missing, but you can pick it up for 3 tricks either way by playing to the K on the first round, whereas by playing to the Q on the first round you can only play the suit for 2 tricks absent an endplay..

I haven't looked at the whole hand for entry management or other considerations as of yet.

[wyman]

CSGibson, on 2011-October-13, 14:24, said:

The best play in isolation is small to the K initially in the club suit. Assuming you are going to play to a high honor on the first round (best for 3 tricks), you will win 3 tricks when you have the stiff A in front of the honor you led to, when you have Axx opposite J, and when the suit splits 2-2. You can never pick up the suit for 4 tricks when it splits 4-0 because of the spots you are missing, but you can pick it up for 3 tricks either way by playing to the K on the first round, whereas by playing to the Q on the first round you can only play the suit for 2 tricks absent an endplay..

I haven't looked at the whole hand for entry management or other considerations as of yet.

Not only this, but since this is pairs, if you're gonna play a club to the K, you can win a high diamond in dummy concealing, to RHO, the location of the DA. Now if the club ace is on your right, RHO will consider a diamond return, which gives you another tempo.

[BunnyGo]

wyman, on 2011-October-13, 14:27, said:

Not only this, but since this is pairs, if you're gonna play a club to the K, you can win a high diamond in dummy concealing, to RHO, the location of the DA. Now if the club ace is on your right, RHO will consider a diamond return, which gives you another tempo.

You may have grunched han's post and been fooled by the display, but the defense knows where the A of diamonds is since South is dummy.

[wyman]

BunnyGo, on 2011-October-13, 14:41, said:

You may have grunched han's post and been fooled by the display, but the defense knows where the A of diamonds is since South is dummy.

Blah. Then I would probably, for similar reasons, play low and win the Q of diamonds. Then play a low club toward the K.

[JLOGIC]

Definitely worth noting that if they led from a 4 card diamond suit it is super clear to play a club to the queen, and then a club to the ten later.

edit: Sorry, I'm a retard thought it was 1N-3N, it is not "super clear" on this auction.

[JLOGIC]

CSGibson, on 2011-October-13, 14:24, said:

The best play in isolation is small to the K initially in the club suit. Assuming you are going to play to a high honor on the first round (best for 3 tricks), you will win 3 tricks when you have the stiff A in front of the honor you led to, when you have Axx opposite J, and when the suit splits 2-2. You can never pick up the suit for 4 tricks when it splits 4-0 because of the spots you are missing, but you can pick it up for 3 tricks either way by playing to the K on the first round, whereas by playing to the Q on the first round you can only play the suit for 2 tricks absent an endplay..

I haven't looked at the whole hand for entry management or other considerations as of yet.

Technically true, but only correct if you can never soul-read the club position on the second round. Perhaps you will get some additional information about the hand/a read on them and figure out to hook the club ten later, so I would say the normal play in the suit is a club to the queen without any additional clues.

And on this hand, you want the opening leader to be in since he will have a harder time finding a killing heart shift, and he is a safer hand since he can't lead through th HT.

Of course if diamonds are known to be 5-3 that trumps all other considerations on this hand easily.

[han]

JLOGIC, on 2011-October-13, 21:27, said:

And on this hand, you want the opening leader to be in since he will have a harder time finding a killing heart shift, and he is a safer hand since he can't lead through th HT.

I understand that you want opening leader to win the club, but I don't see how you can do anything about it. Aren't you going to lose the club trick to the person with the ace on any reasonable play of the clubs?

[JLOGIC]

han, on 2011-October-14, 03:19, said:

I understand that you want opening leader to win the club, but I don't see how you can do anything about it. Aren't you going to lose the club trick to the person with the ace on any reasonable play of the clubs?

Let me clarify:

I do not want to lead into stiff ace of clubs, and get a killing heart shift, so I'd rather lead a club to the queen risking stiff ace with the opening leader because then he will be on lead and less likely to find the heart shift. The worst scenario would be to lead a club to the king, losing to stiff ace, and then getting a heart shift through me.

But like I said, if diamonds are 5-3 then this is all moot.

[billw55]

billw55, on 2011-October-13, 11:08, said:

Low to the 8 protects against 4-0 break and also protects the ♥AT to some extent. Not sure if that makes it right or not.

Not meaning to bump myself, but I am interested to get a response to this since nobody else seems to be considering it at all. Low to the 8 seems to guarantee three club tricks and nine total (assuming LHO plays the 7; if not, cover his card obv). Is this wrong because it gives up the chance for ten tricks?

[JLOGIC]

billw55, on 2011-October-14, 06:27, said:

Not meaning to bump myself, but I am interested to get a response to this since nobody else seems to be considering it at all. Low to the 8 seems to guarantee three club tricks and nine total. Is this wrong because it gives up the chance for ten tricks?

It hardly guarantees 9 tricks if they are able to take 2 clubs and 3 hearts. On top of that it is a pair game, so giving up overtricks on "safety" plays is not a good idea.

[dake50]

Let D4(?) run to DQ. Now low to CK.
Will West guess knock out DA when his CA>CK?
Or will he sense D4 denies D:Kxxxx? So H-switch?
Or does West have H:KQJxx then H:10 is a 2nd stop?