[Statto]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-December-17, 11:41, said:

Statto, on 2011-December-13, 16:31, said:

... Not familiar with the method of looking for a Queen for grand, tho it's probably better as many grands are hard to find without being able to discover if partner has a specific Queen ...

I don't know why folks are contemplating the Grand when off 1 key card ! ( not knowing which key card is missing ).

I was talking in general terms here, as 6♣ in the OP's system would have been a grand try asking for ♣Q. I can recall occasions where having a method to discover whether a specific queen is held would have allowed us to find a grand.

rhm, on 2011-December-15, 06:16, said:

... Slam choice must come before grand try. It is much more important. ...

Interesting question. I can't recall ever offering (or being offered) a choice of suit slams after an uninterrupted bidding sequence, but them I'm more likely to notice when our methods don't work so well...

[Fluffy]

jallerton, on 2011-December-17, 10:41, said:

Quote

Ok, so the alternatives are pass, 6♥ and 6NT. Both contracts could be down from the start with the other being cold, but 6NT at least requires LHO to make the best lead for that.

Chances of partner having ♥AK are better than ♦A, if you drop into the mixture that he might have 7 hearts, and/or ♥J and ♥10, I think 6♥ is superior in average.

I agree that partner is quite likely to hold ♥AK, but even if this is the case and hence she lacks ♦A, she will probably hold ♦Q to make up her opening bid. Even if she doesn't hold ♦AQ, it will not be at all obvious for LHO to lead ♦A against 6NT if he is the owner of that card.

I already said 6NT even down double dummy might require a lead to put it down, but perhaps even when partner has ♥AK you might fail to ♥Jxxx when 6NT makes, this might come down to your opening style with 6322 10 HCP hands with good hearts.

I find it hard to find hands witout ♦A nor ♦Q for partner, I am not sure anymore that 6♥ is better, what was the winner?

[tolvyrj]

4♣ after 2♥ sets ♣ as trumps and demands cue bids from prd, really? Ok if u say so, im no expert in 2/1 bidding, but i fail to see the point in that; if 2♣ is forcing to game why wouldnt i bid just 3♣ over 2♥ if i have ♣ and no support for ♥ and rebid them after what ever prd bids on his/hers next round.
Without knowledge of where prds key cards r i have no other way to decide which slam we play than just guess.

[jallerton]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-18, 05:53, said:

I already said 6NT even down double dummy might require a lead to put it down, but perhaps even when partner has ♥AK you might fail to ♥Jxxx when 6NT makes, this might come down to your opening style with 6322 10 HCP hands with good hearts.

I find it hard to find hands witout ♦A nor ♦Q for partner, I am not sure anymore that 6♥ is better, what was the winner?

6NT was selected at the table. Partner held x AK10xxx QJ8x Jx so 6NT was the right contract. Hearts and clubs were both 3-2 so all three slams were making on the actual layout.

At the other table, the auction was 2♥(8-11)-3♣-3♦-3♠-4♣-4NT-5♦-6♣-Pass

[mike777]

A very interesting hand indeed.

yes it seems 6nt is safer if the bidding starts out:


1h=2c
2h=2s
3d=3h
4h=4nt
5h=?

If pard is akxxxx in h he should have the Qd.

if pard is axxxxx in h and axxx in d pard should have the QS or QD

[mike777]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-December-12, 13:37, said:

imps, KO match

---

1H = 5+, you open virtually all 11s with 5 hearts and most 10s with 6 hearts
2C = game forcing, natural or possibly 4333/3343
2H = 6 hearts, any range, could have 4 spades with good hearts and very bad spades, would always rebid hearts with 6-4 reds
4H = minimum opening, denies 3 key cards, if 6-4 unlikely to have 4 controls unless otherwise very minimum
4NT/5H = keycard

Which slam?

Or would you have bid differently earlier?

coming back to this very interesting hand I see that you rebid 2h with all 6-4 reds, any range.

this style does give you a rebid problem over 2s as you note in a later post that 3d now shows extras not just shape and a minimum. That forces you to rebid 2nt on this deal and not 3d.

As it turns out all roads lead to 6nt on this deal after 2s.

It does raise the issue of rebidding 2h with all 6-4 red hands.

[FrancesHinden]

We play 1H-2C-2D as artificial, so it's more convenient to show the 6th heart at once.
But in any case we never play the fourth suit as 'natural' it would always be artificial in some way. I don't know why I would want to bid 3D to show a 4-card suit when we won't have a fit and when 2NT to show a stop is cheaper.

[mike777]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-December-21, 08:15, said:

We play 1H-2C-2D as artificial, so it's more convenient to show the 6th heart at once.
But in any case we never play the fourth suit as 'natural' it would always be artificial in some way. I don't know why I would want to bid 3D to show a 4-card suit when we won't have a fit and when 2NT to show a stop is cheaper.

2nt would let pard know you have xx in clubs and spades. 3d would deny that. In any event since 3d shows extras for you that is out so 2nt becomes the catchall.

not sure what you would bid after 2nt and then 3c but it seems easy to end up in 6nt on this deal which is better than 6h 4-1 break.