[Antrax]

IMP scoring, favourable.
(1♣)-1♠-(p) to you
♠Qx ♥KT75 ♦KT72 ♣T53
What do you bid?

[phil_20686]

Antrax, on 2012-April-25, 12:48, said:

IMP scoring, favourable.
(1♣)-1♠-(p) to you
♠Qx ♥KT75 ♦KT72 ♣T53
What do you bid?

1N WTP?

[billw55]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-25, 12:56, said:

1N WTP?

The problem is that clubs are unguarded, as far as we know yet. Also I think 1NT should show more values than this, considering that (a) it consumes no space, and (b) partner is limited by his failure to start with a double.

I pass 1♠.

[mgoetze]

I think 1NT and pass are both fine.

[Phil]

1N.

[JLOGIC]

Totally agree with mgoetze, both 1S and 1N have a lot of merit and are fine. I would usually decide this by my overcalling style, if I was playing with mikeh who I imagine overcalls soundly and doubles and bids very soundly, I'd reply. If I was playing with myself I would pass without thinking. Most people are in between that and it's so close that I think that's all it comes down to. Even a read on RHO might sway me.

That said, the main point of this is you never need a stopper to bid 1N here. It is standard to bid 1N on hands like this without stoppers (if a little stronger if you think this is a pass). If you play in 1N, whatever even if they run the club suit who cares, they need 7 tricks. If you play in 3N, your partner will very likely have a stopper, he has a lot of values. Meanwhile, you keep in play playing 4S, 4H, 3N, 2H etc. The question on this hand is whether you have so much where you have to bid, not whether you can bid 1N with no stopper. That said, of course you can view having no stopper as a negative quality on a marginal 8 count in terms of the likelihood of 1S making vs 1N making.

[JLOGIC]

If I was red I would definitely bid 1N, partner will overcall sounder and the game bonus is larger.

[Antrax]

Thanks. The discussion I had with partner after 1N-3 (lefty has ♣KQJxxx and knocks out partner's singleton ace on the lead, and has an entry in each suit) basically boiled down to overcalling style. I just wanted to get confirmation pass and 1N are sane, depending on what you expect from the 1♠ bidder.
For the record, partner's hand:
♠KJ973 ♥862 ♦J964 ♣A

[Zelandakh]

If you play traditional overalls then pass - 1NT would be 9-12. If you play an overcalling style where you strive to overcall rather than double at the top of the range then the bottom of the 1NT range tends to slip a bit and it makes sense to make a noise. With a random partner I would pass. Basically you match your hand with your overcalling style and decide if game is at all likely. If it is you need to say something, if not then you don't.

[billw55]

I find it intersting that nobody is at all concerned about the club suit when bidding 1NT. You seem to be hoping for game, but won't partner gladly raise to 3NT with many maximums with nothing in clubs? Won't he count on me for the stopper in opponent's bid suit?

I know 1♣ doesn't automatically mean the hand has a club suit, but it does substantially more often than not. In fact on this hand and auction, the odds that he has them seem to have increased. What gives with so casually ignoring the opening club bid?

[mgoetze]

billw55, on 2012-April-26, 06:10, said:

You seem to be hoping for game, but won't partner gladly raise to 3NT with many maximums with nothing in clubs?

Well he might check by bidding 2♣ or 3♣ along the way.

[MickyB]

billw55, on 2012-April-26, 06:10, said:

What gives with so casually ignoring the opening club bid?

If pard has a stopper, it is still sitting over LHO's clubs. This is very different from bidding NT without a stop in RHO's suit.

[Phil]

Antrax, on 2012-April-26, 00:44, said:

Thanks. The discussion I had with partner after 1N-3 (lefty has ♣KQJxxx and knocks out partner's singleton ace on the lead, and has an entry in each suit) basically boiled down to overcalling style. I just wanted to get confirmation pass and 1N are sane, depending on what you expect from the 1♠ bidder.
For the record, partner's hand:
♠KJ973 ♥862 ♦J964 ♣A

Partner can't bid 2♦ with this over 1N?

[Antrax]

Won't that show a stronger hand, in addition to shape?

[JLOGIC]

Antrax, on 2012-April-26, 11:51, said:

Won't that show a stronger hand, in addition to shape?

no

[mgoetze]

Antrax, on 2012-April-26, 11:51, said:

Won't that show a stronger hand, in addition to shape?

Well, perhaps 1♠ showed a stronger hand than what your partner had, that depends on your agreement. 2♦ should not show any additional strength beyond what was already promised by the original 1♠ call. It is completely analogous to the uncontested auction 1♠-1NT-2♦.

[Phil]

Every few years a similar hand comes up. Someone will ask, if 2♦ can show KJxxx xxx Jxxx A, how do you show a better hand that might be interested in game?

I've suggested that a cue bid by overcaller can be made with as little as a sound opening bid. This idea hasn't received any traction here, but I suppose it's a low priority for me too, since I haven't implemented into my own partnerships.