[Cyberyeti]

---

You're playing a weak no trump so a 1N opener is not an option.

Rank the following:

1N (15-16 bal)
2♦
2♠
2N (17-18 bal)
3♦
3♠

(in our case we play a wide range 1N rebid with 2N as GF unbalanced, so the 1N and 2N options given above would both be bid 1N, but I was thinking in more standard terms)

[mgoetze]

I rank 2NT first and all the other options last.

[JLOGIC]

2N, 2nd choice 3D.

[chasetb]

We have a great 16 with a Diamond suit that can be set up, or make life miserable for the opponents in NT, so I follow Mike and Justin with a clear 2NT. 3♦ is only slightly better than 1NT, but I hate any option other than 2NT.

[mikl_plkcc]

2♦ certainly: 6-card ♦ suit, hope to find a ♦ fit.

NT is not safe: no ♣ stopper and they have 50% chance to find the correct lead.

[Antrax]

So you think "minimum opener, no four card ♠, 6+ ♦" is a good description of this hand? Also, how do you find a 5-3 ♠ fit after 2♦?

[Cyberyeti]

I thought this was interesting as all can go horribly wrong.

2N isn't really going to enjoy Jxxxx, KQxx, x, xxx for example, 3♦ isn't going to enjoy Qxxxx, xxx, Ax, xxx where 4♠ and 5♦ aren't bad.

For us, it whould have been easy, with the 1N rebid 15-bad 19 we don't pass this very often, so 1N is clearly best and despite my quack laden Qxxxx, Kxxx, J, J109, we should have been fine in 4♠, but he rebid 3♦ and we weren't (our 3♦ is limited by failure to rebid 2N(GF unbal)-3♣(semi forced)-3♦(one suited ♦), so I was expecting something more like Jx, Axx, AKQxxx, Qx with a diamond suit that will have a decent chance of playing for at most one loser opposite a small singleton and no good spade fit).

[Cyberyeti]

Antrax, on 2012-June-09, 23:17, said:

So you think "minimum opener, no four card ♠, 6+ ♦" is a good description of this hand? Also, how do you find a 5-3 ♠ fit after 2♦?

2♦ doesn't show 6, 2452 would also rebid 2♦, but it's still terrible (give partner his actual hand shown above where 4♠ is decent).

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-10, 03:27, said:

2N isn't really going to enjoy Jxxxx, KQxx, x, xxx for example

That hand should move after 2NT, so we should reach our mediocre 4♠.

[Cyberyeti]

Quote

2N isn't really going to enjoy Jxxxx, KQxx, x, xxx for example

gnasher, on 2012-June-10, 05:55, said:

That hand should move after 2NT, so we should reach our mediocre 4♠.

To what ?

partner could easily hold Ax, xxx, AKxxx, AQx, 2N might already be too many.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-10, 06:37, said:

To what ?

partner could easily hold Ax, xxx, AKxxx, AQx, 2N might already be too many.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed your notrump ranges. Why do you play that?

[ggwhiz]

I kinda like 3♠. With my protection against the pump if pard has only 4 there are a lot of ways to get lucky if need be, ie. a crossruff opposite short diamonds.

If the play is a brain burner, it's over to you pard.

[Cyberyeti]

gnasher, on 2012-June-10, 08:39, said:

Sorry, I hadn't noticed your notrump ranges. Why do you play that?

We don't but a lot of locals do, it's pretty standard round here, should have been a non problem for us with the wide range 1N rebid but partner decided to bid 3♦.

TBF the hand I quoted is good enough that you might treat it as 18 anyway with all the prime cards and nice 5 card suit.

[gszes]

hmmm I want to know why there is no 2h bid available???? if p has 4 hearts
they have at least 5 spades and I can convert any heart contract to spades.
I hate my xx clubs for nt rebid and find the idea appalling. I would bid 3d or 3s
before I would bid 2n. 2h also offers a ton of flexibility which also includes
maybe right siding NT.

2h=10
3s=7
3d=6
1n=5
2s=4
2d=3
2n=2

[mikl_plkcc]

Although 2♦ only shows 5 ♦s, I am hoping partner to rebid 2♠ again and find the fit.

[Cyberyeti]

gszes, on 2012-June-10, 18:42, said:

hmmm I want to know why there is no 2h bid available???? if p has 4 hearts
they have at least 5 spades and I can convert any heart contract to spades.
I hate my xx clubs for nt rebid and find the idea appalling. I would bid 3d or 3s
before I would bid 2n. 2h also offers a ton of flexibility which also includes
maybe right siding NT.

2h=10
3s=7
3d=6
1n=5
2s=4
2d=3
2n=2

The problem with 2♥ is that if the auction goes 2♥-4♥, 4♠ is kickback so you're in trouble (this was considered in the post mortem). If you play 4N is always Blackwood, you might be able to do this (depends if you're going to take 4♠ as a cue), but if you play kickback you definitely can't.

[han]

I like a 3D rebid.

[Quartic]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-09, 18:19, said:

---

You're playing a weak no trump so a 1N opener is not an option.

Rank the following:

1N (15-16 bal)
2♦
2♠
2N (17-18 bal)
3♦
3♠

(in our case we play a wide range 1N rebid with 2N as GF unbalanced, so the 1N and 2N options given above would both be bid 1N, but I was thinking in more standard terms)

2NT: 9; 3♦: 7; 1NT: 4

Playing a wide range 1NT rebid: 1NT 10; 3♦: 6.

3♠ for me would promise 4 spades, and this hand is not worth that lie (I'm not sure any hand is.). 2♦ and 2♠ are terrible, completely underbidding the hand.

Also, what follow ups do you play after your wide range 1NT rebid?

[Cyberyeti]

Quartic, on 2012-June-11, 10:21, said:

2NT: 9; 3♦: 7; 1NT: 4

Playing a wide range 1NT rebid: 1NT 10; 3♦: 6.

3♠ for me would promise 4 spades, and this hand is not worth that lie (I'm not sure any hand is.). 2♦ and 2♠ are terrible, completely underbidding the hand.

Also, what follow ups do you play after your wide range 1NT rebid?

Pretty standard Crowhurst, so 1♦-1♠-1N-2♣(asking)-3♦(5 and 17-bad 19, this is definitely worth 17)-3♥(4 and hence 5♠ or would have responded 1♥)-4♠ is how it would go.

[JLOGIC]

han, on 2012-June-11, 03:44, said:

I like a 3D rebid.

That was my initial reaction, our hand is great for a diamond slam if partner wants to go for that, 2N wrongsides NT almost all of the time that it's relevant who plays it, and if we're going to play a partial 3D>2N. I just couldn't get over how hard it will be to get back to spades though over 3D, our hand is also great for spades and 2N makes it so easy to find a 5-3 spade fit whereas 3N makes it difficult since partner will often just bid 3N. That said sometimes we will back into spades, and I don't think bidding 3D is a bad bid at all, it certainly looks more like a 3D bid than a 2N bid lol.