[BunnyGo]

Hi all. This happened last night in the club.

A32, AJ, AQT6, AJ82

Didn't qualify for our 21-22 2NT bid, and is opened 1C in the precision system we were trying last night.

The auction (white vs. red) vs. a couple LOLs

P-(P)-1C-(2H)
X*-(P)-??

X = 5-8 HCP and tends not to have a 5 card suit (definitely not a good one)

Your bid?


EDIT: Sigh....it took me until gwnn said that I couldn't bid 1NT to realize I'd mis-entered the bidding. The bid at the table was only 1H, not 2H. Happy to hear thoughts on both.

This post has been edited by BunnyGo: 2012-June-11, 06:47

[Fluffy]

I would try 3NT, not best but other options don't look good.

I am curious, what do you bid with 5 card suits with other ranges and stronger hands?

[gwnn]

It looks like a pass to me. If we make 3NT, they're probably going for 500 or 800. 5m is far and please don't double with 5 spades partner.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2012-June-11, 01:57, said:

It looks like a pass to me. If we make 3NT, they're probably going for 500 or 800. 5m is far and please don't double with 5 spades partner.

xxxx, x, Kxxx, KQxx looks like a bit of a disaster with 3N rigid and 2♥ requiring only a singleton in one of the minors to make, but only dialling 200 anyway.

The problem here is no knowledge of partner's shape other than no decent 5 card suit, with a possible 1-4 hearts, you just don't know what to do.

[gwnn]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-11, 02:49, said:

xxxx, x, Kxxx, KQxx looks like a bit of a disaster with 3N rigid and 2♥ requiring only a singleton in one of the minors to make, but only dialling 200 anyway.

The problem here is no knowledge of partner's shape other than no decent 5 card suit, with a possible 1-4 hearts, you just don't know what to do.

If +200 is a bit of a disaster, I guess +500 would be a bit of an overwhelming triumph.

[mgoetze]

BunnyGo, on 2012-June-11, 01:17, said:

vs. a couple LOLs

Hm... I guess this means some of the kings are likely to be offside?

[BunnyGo]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-11, 01:33, said:

I would try 3NT, not best but other options don't look good.

I am curious, what do you bid with 5 card suits with other ranges and stronger hands?

We only discussed system for a half hour or so. My partner had expressed a desire to try precision, so this was our first attempt.

The agreement was for competition after our 1♣ opening where the competition stayed below 2NT (and wasn't a double) the bids were:

Pass = 0-4
X = 5-8 nothing to say
Non-jump bids = 5-8 with exactly 5 card suit
jump bids = 5-8 with a 6+ suit
non-jump NT = conventional 9+ forcing, tends to have 5+ card suit
single jump NT = 9-11 NT, balanced with stopper
Cue bid opp suit = 9+ no stopper, no good 5 card suit
3NT (if it's a double jump) = 12-14 HCP, balanced, with stopper

[BunnyGo]

My partner was the one who had to make this decision. The thing I was considering after the fact (I'll still hide for a while what he actually did) was that most of the field is opening 2NT with his hand. Perhaps it's correct to try and get to the field contract of 2NT or 3NT and just outplay them? Or should this consideration not outweigh the idea that 1HX might just be better? It seems to me like putting one's eggs all in one basket by passing.

[han]

BunnyGo, on 2012-June-11, 04:14, said:

Cue bid opp suit = 9+ no stopper, no good 5 card suit

Painful!

[BunnyGo]

han, on 2012-June-11, 04:19, said:

Painful!

Perhaps, but we stole it from some old notes we found (I had copied them from Berkowitz's book once), and just needed *some* agreement. This was more just for fun and if we're going to form a steady precision partnership we'll find better agreements and spend more time on it later.

[gwnn]

Regardless of how well if worked or failed on this hand, wtf? I can't bid spades in a forcing way?

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2012-June-11, 03:01, said:

If +200 is a bit of a disaster, I guess +500 would be a bit of an overwhelming triumph.

No, I don't worry too much about 2-3 IMPs on this sort of board, I do worry about 5-6 with a decent chance of a double game swing.

If I was 99% sure of taking 200, with decent chances of 500, I'd be happy with this, but there is no certainty of 200, at this vul, opps can have some pretty wild shape and not bid up as they would at other vuls, Qxx, KQxxxxx, xx, x/KJx, 10xx, Jxx, xxxx is perfectly plausible for example.

[gwnn]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-11, 05:04, said:

No, I don't worry too much about 2-3 IMPs on this sort of board, I do worry about 5-6 with a decent chance of a double game swing.

If I was 99% sure of taking 200, with decent chances of 500, I'd be happy with this, but there is no certainty of 200, at this vul, opps can have some pretty wild shape and not bid up as they would at other vuls, Qxx, KQxxxxx, xx, x/KJx, 10xx, Jxx, xxxx is perfectly plausible for example.

Pretty sure we're playing matchpoints.

[BunnyGo]

gwnn, on 2012-June-11, 04:48, said:

Regardless of how well if worked or failed on this hand, wtf? I can't bid spades in a forcing way?

opener? or responder?

Responder bids spades by bidding 1NT, then spades (forcing)

Opener makes a 2S bid here to show a "2♣" opener with spades.

[gwnn]

Responder cannot bid 1NT over 2H. Sorry for the TLA in my prior post.

edit: aha, 2NT then spades. still, this is weird to me sorry. They will raise hearts and we will be often stuck.

[BunnyGo]

gwnn, on 2012-June-11, 06:28, said:

Responder cannot bid 1NT over 2H. Sorry for the TLA in my prior post.

edit: aha, 2NT then spades. still, this is weird to me sorry. They will raise hearts and we will be often stuck.

GAH! just realized I mis-entered the bidding. It's much harder to pass when it's only a 1H bid instead of 2H.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2012-June-11, 05:11, said:

Pretty sure we're playing matchpoints.

Sorry, wasn't clear to me, I play at a club about 10x/year and at least 8 of those are teams.

At MPs is much closer.

[BunnyGo]

At the table (when it was only 1 heart) my partner decided to pass. I was kind enough to provide:

Qx, T876, Jxx , Kxxx

for a top board. Was curious about the decision to pass. It seemed reasonable, but I wasn't sure what others would do.

[gwnn]

I wouldn't pass 1Hx. Instead I would probably bid 2NT. 2H will wrong-side no trumps too often.