[straube]

matchpoints, forgot the vul

1D (1H) dbl (1N) 2S (3H)

Partner's 1N was with QT983 932 KJ8 95 and my hand 7 AQJT84 Q6 AJ82

Partner wanted to bid 1N to suggest values in the opponents' suits. More important than the question of whether 2H or 1N is more attractive, doesn't 1N promise more like 9 hcps here? A hand that thinks it can make 1N?

Second question is whether I should bid 4H on this hand. His bid did warn me about values in the opponents suits, but I was expecting more values and maybe should have shot it out anyway.

[dboxley]

As a rule I like to follow Mr. Cohen's advice to raise with support but with your pd's hand I would probably pass. I don't wand to encourage him with this probably worthless hand. I would certainly never bid 1NT.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah if I couldn't show a bad raise (ie no transfers) I would probably pass vul and bid 2H NV. 1N is ridiculous, it might be ok to bid 1N with support sometimes but the hand is not nearly good enough to bid 1N in this auction anyways.

[TimG]

straube, on 2012-June-13, 10:48, said:

More important than the question of whether 2H or 1N is more attractive, doesn't 1N promise more like 9 hcps here? A hand that thinks it can make 1N?

I don't think that 9 hcp opposite what constitutes a one-level major suit overcall equates to thinking you can make 1NT. Bidding those values helps partner judge whether to compete further, and having those values reduces the likelihood of a big penalty if you're already overboard.

[straube]

TimG, on 2012-June-13, 14:52, said:

I don't think that 9 hcp opposite what constitutes a one-level major suit overcall equates to thinking you can make 1NT. Bidding those values helps partner judge whether to compete further, and having those values reduces the likelihood of a big penalty if you're already overboard.

Well yes. I might better have said reasonable chances of making 1N. Partner doesn't have to have a minimum (8 count?) hand for his overcall and a bid of 1N may lead to a different contract anyway. So in terms of hcp strength, what do we expect as a minimum here?

[JLOGIC]

I would never bid 1N with less than 9 and depending on the form of scoring and vul and opps I might pass with 9. This is a dangerous auction since it's so easy to double you. True partner doesn't have to be minimum, but if he is you are probably screwed if you get doubled. With high danger and low upside (you can just pass and defend something anyways, they're forced, and you probably don't have a game if you have a 9 count, the main upside is you enable partner to keep bidding with a mediocre hand and 6-4 or 5-5 or something), you have to be careful.

Needless to say I do not even think playing a natural 1N makes a lot of sense. You have redouble available which is completely safe while accomplishing the same goals (show some values so partner can keep competing, and if the opps are light or partner has a good shapely hand and you happen to have a game you can still find it). What are people even using XX for, showing a top honor? I think using XX to show your natural 1N bids with no downside, while also freeing up 1N to be used as artificial is a slam dunk compared to being able to show a top honor with XX. Why is that even a priority in a low level competitive auction on our first bid?

Anyways, it totally depends but I would say 9-12 is a reasonable range for 1N in general. Bidding it with a 6 count is pretty lol to me.

[straube]

So what would you use 1N for when redouble takes its place?

Btw, I think partner was thinking 1N to slow me down and that he'd retreat to 2H if doubled. I think this is wrong because it gave me the incorrect picture of his hand and invited penalty doubles to start, but I follow his thinking.

[JLOGIC]

Transfers starting with 1N are pretty common where I'm from. Transferring to their suit is a limit+ 3 card raise. For instance in this auction:

1N=clubs
2C=limit+ 3 trumps
2D=contructive raise
2H=bad raise
2N=4 card limit+ raise
3D=mixed raise
3H=preemptive raise

2S and 3C can be whatever you like, I'm sure on the forums and in expert circles fit would be the most popular, personally I like weak.

[straube]

Thanks. I haven't seen transfers in this particular setting, but they look very good.

[Free]

I also play these transfers, the big upside is that you have 3 ways to raise partner below the 2-level and you lose pretty much nothing.

[Cyberyeti]

We use 1N as the better 2♥ raise and 2♥ as the bad one.