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Lead Agreement from Three Small vs Suits Quick Poll

Poll: Lead Agreement from Three Small vs Suits (68 member(s) have cast votes)

Playing your preferred lead agreements, what do you lead systemically from xxx (unbid suit) against suits?

  1. Small (34 votes [46.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.58%

  2. Middle (22 votes [30.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.14%

  3. Top (12 votes [16.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.44%

  4. Depends on something else (please explain) (4 votes [5.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.48%

  5. A random card (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. I never lead from xxx against suits (1 votes [1.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.37%

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#1 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 11:29

Suppose you decide to lead from xxx vs. a suit contract. This suit has never been bid, and suppose your spots are small enough that you don't really need to worry about costing a trick (i.e. the top card is not the ten or anything like that). What I'm interested in here is your systemic lead (obviously you might false-card on some hands especially if you hold almost all your side's expected values, but that is really not the issue here).
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 11:57

Small but I had always played 3/5th vs suits so that probably doesn't help. In my new partnership we play 4th and lead middle or top from 3 small
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#3 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 12:27

I lead top in my regular partnership, but I don't care what I play as long as I do not lead the middle one in partner's suit.
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#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 13:22

Top for us. Low=from doubleton or an honor if not in pard's suit.
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#5 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 13:30

Small (except with people who lead low from doubletons)
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#6 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 13:44

I prefer low but play 3rd/5th almost always.
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#7 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 14:01

Middle, unless the middle card looks like low from Hxx lead, then top.

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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 16:47

I prefer middle because it's what I'm used to, but I think top is better. Leading low from three small makes my head hurt.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2012-June-17, 19:18

Small, but I play 3/5th as well. If I were playing 2/4 leads then I would prefer the middle.
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#10 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 02:42

MUD unless supported the suit, then top. playing 2/4 MDU of course.

#11 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 04:32

I think small is the best, it gives the most important information first (count). No surprise it's so popular at elite level.
I play 2/4 all my life: low from xx, middle from xxx (and then small). This is decent, you don't waste the highest card and got delayed count information (and sometimes instant, expecially in xx case).
I don't like MUD. If you have T8x/98x you sometimes don't want to play the highest 2nd round and I predict a lot of confusion as to 2 or 3 dilemma.

Quote

in my new partnership we play 4th and lead middle or top from 3 small


Beware those 98x vs 9x problems :)
I always thought it's very bad agreement. You con't distinguish xx from xxx even by 2nd trick. Looks like source of disasters to me. I think I remember a spectacular disaster of Hamman-Zia on vugraph caused by this. What am I missing here ?
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 04:50

I have never played anything but 3/5th vs suits, so I don't know. Hope it works out :P I assume there will be some compensating gains knowing partner has an honor on the 2 lead or something but I am used to strict count leads vs suits.
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 06:20

Not trying to threadjack, but I'm considering 2nd from NT with holdings like Hxx. It is a sound method to lead as follows:

Hxxx
xxxx
xxx
Hxx?

It seems 2nd is getting a lot of attention here?
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#14 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 07:02

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-June-17, 13:44, said:

I prefer low but play 3rd/5th almost always.


If you have already shown 3 card support during the auction, leading low should promise a queen or higher. Lead high with 3 small. Partner already knows the count.
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#15 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 08:34

View Postjogs, on 2012-June-18, 07:02, said:

If you have already shown 3 card support during the auction, leading low should promise a queen or higher. Lead high with 3 small. Partner already knows the count.


nigel_k was responding to the OP which explicitly said that the suit hadn't been bid.

I'm the same as JLOGIC, I always play 3rd/low (except with gnasher!) and find this normal.
It helps to have good agreements about when you are going to come out with a lead of xxx in the first place, it's not exactly my first choice of lead.
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#16 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 10:32

Quote

It is a sound method to lead as follows:


This is standard Polish style. Almost everybody in Poland play it.
My understanding is that this is different from "British 2/4" in a way that we lead small from xx (up to 92).
You also need an agreement about what card you play from xxxx in 2nd round of the suit if you can't afford the highest one (so appearance of lowest/highest not seen tells partner exact count at this point).
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#17 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 12:43

View Postbluecalm, on 2012-June-18, 10:32, said:

This is standard Polish style. Almost everybody in Poland play it.
My understanding is that this is different from "British 2/4" in a way that we lead small from xx (up to 92).
You also need an agreement about what card you play from xxxx in 2nd round of the suit if you can't afford the highest one (so appearance of lowest/highest not seen tells partner exact count at this point).

British 2/4 includes a few 3s and 1s for those who don't understand it. A better description would be "we never lead 5th" than 2/4 :)
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#18 User is offline   akhare 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 13:34

Top -- low would be from a doubleton or Hxx..
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#19 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 14:46

personally, I prefer 3/low leads whether I have an honor or not, in conjunction with a smith echo.
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#20 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-18, 16:07

View Postbluecalm, on 2012-June-18, 10:32, said:

This is standard Polish style. Almost everybody in Poland play it.
My understanding is that this is different from "British 2/4" in a way that we lead small from xx (up to 92).
You also need an agreement about what card you play from xxxx in 2nd round of the suit if you can't afford the highest one (so appearance of lowest/highest not seen tells partner exact count at this point).


Yes, when people said 2/4th I used to get confused then I realized I should just listen to their accent to figure out what they meant.

Quote

It helps to have good agreements about when you are going to come out with a lead of xxx in the first place, it's not exactly my first choice of lead.


Interesting I am generally a very passive leader and often will lead from 3 small. Obv depends if its MP or imps I guess.
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