[bd71]

---

Matchpoints

Question in poll...

[Quantumcat]

Partner should have about a 17-count or better with 4144 or 42(34) (maybe the opponents are playing Acol, or responder raised with honour doubleton). He won't have a five-card suit or he should have overcalled it since he has the values to make a takeout double on the next round. We don't have any fits that should distract from defence (an 8 or 9 card fit might mean partner's AK does not cash). It is way easier to take six tricks in a contract in your suit than 8 in a non-fit. I can't find any reason not to pass.

[ggwhiz]

I'm leaving it in and make us at least a 3-1 favorite to get a top with pards nice hand behind the opener. I have eventual entries to lead through and push that advantage home.

[SteveMoe]

Agreeing with Quantumcat and ggwhiz. Partner might be competing with ♠AKxx ♥- ♦AKxx ♣Qxxxx (minors either way) - a nice three suiter that has a very weak 5-card minor.

[semeai]

I'll pass. It's likely enough to work, and the alternatives are not great.

I don't think partner needs a 17 count, though. Partner's balancing, we're playing matchpoints, we're white.

[JLOGIC]

I'd go with 2S and don't really think it's close, partner has a heart void and can double much lighter than 17. They might well compete to 3H.

[jillybean]

Let's watch all the votes for 2♠ roll in

[the_clown]

At MP I would try for 200, at IMPS I am always pulling to 2♠

[Fluffy]

passsing with weak hearts missplaced is not gonna be fun. Partner having a void means that we cannot draw trumps and that his strenght range is lower, both meaning that we don´t wanna play this contract. Vulnerability makes the problem even easier.

[wyman]

Vote for pass rolling in after Justin bids 2S.

Though his vote will make me far less surprised when it turns out I'm wrong...

[phil_20686]

JLOGIC, on 2012-September-09, 21:32, said:

I'd go with 2S and don't really think it's close, partner has a heart void and can double much lighter than 17. They might well compete to 3H.

I am not convinced this is true. Most people play this as a lebensohl position these days, so if partner has weak hands and any shape in a minor he could have got into the auction already. So the doubler should be looking to play the three level opposite a balanced hand that may well not even have a four card suit to bid.

I mean, I guess I would double decent 15's, so if that is what you meant by "much lighter" I guess we are not so far away, but would you not like to defend at MP red vs green, with this hand? I see 200 as pretty likely. More than 50% anyway.

Even if it is cold, most club players find bad breaks unfamiliar territory, and might well go off.

(PS: I will join the chorus of people who would bid 2S at imps).

[kuhchung]

jillybean, on 2012-September-09, 21:37, said:

Let's watch all the votes for 2♠ roll in

hahaha love it

[ggwhiz]

This might be a style thing. We take a lot of liberties with our overcalls including 4-carders and mean it with our doubles.

With pards expected heart void we also tend to overcall first and follow it with a T/O double on the weaker ones. I'm on firm ground with my pass (imps as well as mp's) but if you play lighter shape doubles you are not.

[mr1303]

I think at MPs pass is clear, since we will frequently get +200 here, and our chances for a game of our own look slim. At IMPs -470 is a very poor score, and so would bid 2S.

[MrAce]

Some people in forums know, Phil even calles it a "Timo pass", that i convert a lot of doubles to penalty that most people wont do. JJ from LA even told me back then that i am crazy but somehow i have a sick accuracy.

Yet i was the first 2 ♠ voter in this topic. I even wrote a huge long ass post, then deleted it.

What i did was to give pd a reasonable hand which will not possibly stomach passing in pass out seat and these colors at MP. I gave flat 5 hcps to responder and i gave 12-14 range 5332 hand to opener. And since i dont have a simulation tool i just put it to DD solver and started playing with the cards of opponents and partners. I did 21 different tests (i knw thats nothing compared to simulation )

All 21 of them made 2♥ some of them overtricks.

19 of them made 2♠ at the same time !! That was a surprise to me.

Before you all start a bitchfest about double dummy, i have to remind that DD works for the benefit of defense, especially at low level contracts. Especially on this hand where declarer has almost all the info he needs but defenders dont.

I admit my results are not reliable, but lets say someone good at simulating found out that there are more hands that we defeat 2♥ (i am sure there are), how much more defeat justifies passing this dbl ? % 40 ? % 50 of the time ? On the other hand a simulator will not keep opponent hands 5332 vs 4342 (which i did), it will deal some unbalanced hands too.

But when voting for 2♠ i didnt think any of those, pass just seemed wrong to my eyes looking at this hand. I may be wrong of course, at least the poll says i am wrong

[phil_20686]

MrAce, on 2012-September-10, 17:23, said:

I may be wrong of course, at least the poll says i am wrong

I wish for all polls to be public polls. I really want to know what the other strong players on the forum did.

[JLOGIC]

jillybean, on 2012-September-09, 21:37, said:

Let's watch all the votes for 2♠ roll in

Works in reverse when you say this imo

[the hog]

Well regardless of any post, I would bid 2S and I do not think this is close. The hearts are not good enough to pass. Why cannot doubler have a weaker hand with excellent distribution? He does not need a 17 count.

[Quantumcat]

the hog, on 2012-September-11, 01:35, said:

Well regardless of any post, I would bid 2S and I do not think this is close. The hearts are not good enough to pass. Why cannot doubler have a weaker hand with excellent distribution? He does not need a 17 count.

If he has a normal takeout double, if we thought we should be in the auction knowing that, we would have bid. Why should he repeat himself? That would be like a 1nt opener rebidding 2nt over interference with responder passing throughout.

[bd71]

---

Here's the full hand. A♠ led, then A♦, small♦.

Our (E/W) result: -870 for 2♥X+1

Comments welcome.