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Six bad hearts

#1 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2012-September-01, 14:41

QTx T8xxxx KJx x
Matchpoints, r/r, partner deals:
1D 1H (3C)
passed back to you. What now?

Also, we were playing weak jump shifts. Should I have considered trying that instead?
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-01, 14:51

Depends on how you define weak JS. This is too strong for us to do that. I think they get to declare this one, and it is probably not going to be a good thing for us. Can't bring myself to bid 3H now. Partner might think I have a 3H bid.
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#3 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 04:05

PASS.

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#4 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 22:02

Pass. If pard had about 16 hcp and 3 hearts he might have made a support double. There isnt any way to bid something to play, 3D and 3H both sound invitational. Also, if playing weak jump shifts I think they should be saved for hands where all your points are in your suit - eg xxx KJxxxx x xxx. Then when pard has a good hand he is better placed to decide if game might make.
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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 09:10

I changed my style about weak twos from: Points in your suits to: Best describtion of the hand. So I had bid 2 ♥ after 1♦. Now I am stuck. But it cannot be right to pass at mps when opps play in the suit of my singelton and we have about half of the deck. Who knows, maybe partner has even enough to make game, Something like Ax,KQx,ATxxx,xxx makes game quite good.
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 09:27

View PostCodo, on 2012-September-04, 09:10, said:

I changed my style about weak twos from: Points in your suits to: Best describtion of the hand. So I had bid 2 ♥ after 1♦.

While it is true that some people's weak two's (which are opening bids) and their "weak JS" responses are the same range -- they are different for, IMO, a whole lot more of us, and the ranges don't overlap even a little bit.
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 09:38

With a 20-20 deck and shortness in their suit, I cannot see passing.

Double for me.
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#8 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 09:41

definitely pass
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#9 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 09:56

View PostQuantumcat, on 2012-September-02, 22:02, said:

Pass. If pard had about 16 hcp and 3 hearts he might have made a support double. There isnt any way to bid something to play, 3D and 3H both sound invitational. Also, if playing weak jump shifts I think they should be saved for hands where all your points are in your suit - eg xxx KJxxxx x xxx. Then when pard has a good hand he is better placed to decide if game might make.

This is not a support double situation for anyone that I know of (I believe we had this discussion in another thread). Support doubles only apply when a simple raise to the two level is available in competition.
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#10 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 10:02

View PostQuantumcat, on 2012-September-02, 22:02, said:

Pass. If pard had about 16 hcp and 3 hearts he might have made a support double.

As we've learned recently from another thread, support doubles do not apply when opener cannot bid two our responder's major.
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#11 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 12:42

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-September-04, 09:27, said:

While it is true that some people's weak two's (which are opening bids) and their "weak JS" responses are the same range -- they are different for, IMO, a whole lot more of us, and the ranges don't overlap even a little bit.


Well, the OP considered a weak jump, so no matter what style you, I or the majority play, it seems to be in range for him....
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#12 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 17:19

View PostTimG, on 2012-September-04, 10:02, said:

As we've learned recently from another thread, support doubles do not apply when opener cannot bid two our responder's major.

Well, then a double would show a good hand not knowing where to play, probably with heart tolerance - same difference, really.
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#13 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 17:38

pass
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 18:09

View Postquiddity, on 2012-September-01, 14:41, said:

QTx T8xxxx KJx x
Matchpoints, r/r, partner deals:
1D 1H (3C)
passed back to you. What now?

Also, we were playing weak jump shifts. Should I have considered trying that instead?


I guess you mean
1D (P) 1H (3C)
P (P) ?

Pretty obvious pass now.
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 02:40

View PostPhil, on 2012-September-04, 09:38, said:

With a 20-20 deck and shortness in their suit, I cannot see passing.

Double for me.


Unfortunately partner will have no idea that you doubled for the above reason, it will mislead him regardless. If he is expecting you to be better than this you will often defend a making doubled partscore or get too high yoursel. If he is expecting you to be as light as this then he will be limping when he is supposed to be running when you have better hands. But my logic makes more sense at imps i admit.
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 02:42

if 1♦ is umbalanced always bidding 3♦ is temping.
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#17 User is offline   rsteele 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 04:11

View Postquiddity, on 2012-September-01, 14:41, said:

QTx T8xxxx KJx x
Matchpoints, r/r, partner deals:
1D 1H (3C)
passed back to you. What now?

Also, we were playing weak jump shifts. Should I have considered trying that instead?

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#18 User is offline   rsteele 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 04:13

View Postquiddity, on 2012-September-01, 14:41, said:

QTx T8xxxx KJx x
Matchpoints, r/r, partner deals:
1D 1H (3C)
passed back to you. What now?

Also, we were playing weak jump shifts. Should I have considered trying that instead?

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#19 User is offline   rsteele 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 04:19

When partner can't double 3C you are not earning any matchpoints defending that contract. A bid is obvious and the real question is what to bid? As I am in front of the 3C bidder a double is for takeout and should imply diamond support while a three heart bid is unilateral in scope. As for 2H over one D that is not my style but I will not argue that it is ineffective.
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#20 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 16:27

View PostFluffy, on 2012-September-05, 02:42, said:

if 1♦ is umbalanced always bidding 3♦ is temping.

But that will show an invitational hand, won't it?
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