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An interesting hand from a book Play 6NT

#1 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 16:44

In a recent book the following deal was given, which started to fascinate me



South bids 6NT to protect the K and you are asked to plan the play on the lead of the T.
The official solution did not really satisfy me.

Obviously the contract makes easily when clubs break.
I am more interested in the question what additional layouts can you envision and manage?
How?

Rainer Herrmann
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 16:51

Lets start with the basics:
I can strip squeeze west if he has 4 clubs :),

Also can make when RHO has QJ, 4+ clubs and 6 hearts (or QJ10)
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#3 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 16:59

View PostFluffy, on 2012-September-15, 16:51, said:

Lets start with the basics:
I can strip squeeze west if he has 4 clubs :),

Also can make when RHO has QJ, 4+ clubs and 6 hearts (or QJ10)


Also can strip squeeze east when he has 4+ clubs and 6 hearts (or QJ10)
"Maybe we should all get together and buy Kaitlyn a box set of "All in the Family" for Chanukah. Archie didn't think he was a racist, the problem was with all the chinks, dagos, niggers, kikes, etc. ruining the country." ~ barmar
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 17:40

lol strip squeeze for 1 down, dumb me :P

but I see now another position, if RHO has 4 clubs, the sole heart guard and either A or QJ he is squeezed in 3 suits.
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#5 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 17:54

Again, E's diamond holding is irrelevant. If he has 4+ and the guard, after 6 rounds of (pitching 2 from South) E must let go of his last and now 4 rounds of

But you're right, the strip squeeze against W doesn't work (I missed that originally.) It would work if you had one of S's club honors in dummy and if the 6 were higher than either of E's .
"Maybe we should all get together and buy Kaitlyn a box set of "All in the Family" for Chanukah. Archie didn't think he was a racist, the problem was with all the chinks, dagos, niggers, kikes, etc. ruining the country." ~ barmar
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 19:33

My understanding of strip squeezes was limited to the basic 3 card ending where squeezed guy leads from or into a tenace. Probably for language issues: learning the basic concept of strip-squeeze without knowing what strip meant for many years.
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#7 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 19:37

Sorry, I don't know all the fancy names for various esoteric squeezes so I might be using the wrong one.
"Maybe we should all get together and buy Kaitlyn a box set of "All in the Family" for Chanukah. Archie didn't think he was a racist, the problem was with all the chinks, dagos, niggers, kikes, etc. ruining the country." ~ barmar
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 19:39

well it sounds right to say "on the run of the spades east is striped off his diamonds", so strip squeeze looks apropiate.
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#9 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2012-September-15, 21:13

I first thought of this:


A9x
6x
xx


Kx
K
AKQ8

Where I should have some sort of count which would allow me to decide whether to try to play AK of clubs and then endplay whoever got J/T/9x or setting up the diamond 6(!) or cashing hearts. But now I see this:


A9x
6x
xx


Kx

AKQ8x

Which is better since I can play AKQ and another club setting up the missing winner in that suit when East throws away all his/her diamonds. But whatever you play for it's gonna be hard to read...

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#10 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 02:14

Let's assume diamonds are 7-2 and East if anyone guards clubs. Cash 6 rounds of spades. First discard is a diamond.

If East throws 0 diamonds, then throw a club, cash AKQ to discover the break. If East kept both diamonds, then all I can see is hope East started with at least 2 of QJT of hearts allowing us to cash the king of hearts and take a heart finesse.

If East throws 2 diamonds, we throw a diamond, cash AK of clubs. If they both follow, continue with the queen and exit a club to set up our fifth club. If 1-5, then we must exit a club now. Win the forced return, and West is simple squeezed when we cash the queen of clubs (East must have come down to 2 hearts to keep 5 clubs).

If East throws 1 diamond, we throw a club. East again must have come down to 2 (or less) hearts. Now AKQ of clubs puts West in a squeeze without the count (assuming he had the ace of diamonds for his 3D opener).
Wayne Somerville
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#11 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 03:04

I dunno the squeeze names and all tbh, but here is how i would play at the table.

-I would gives west 7 starting with AQ
-I would give east 4 cards

Basically very reasonable and likely splits. Something like ;



I would cash 6 spades and see EAST hold 7 cards before i do in my hand

a-If he holds 4+3 i basically can cash clubs and give him a club since he doesnt have any diamonds. (I am discarding 2 from hand
b-If he holds 4+2+1 then i would discard a + a from hand and cash clubs to squeeze West this time.
c-If he holds 1+4+2 i hope he started with at least 2 of QJT hearts so i can finesse WEST fir the remaining honor

But i am sure i am missing (at 4 am coming from work...excuses excuses..bla bla :P) a better line since Rainer asked this.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

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#12 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 03:16

View PostFluffy, on 2012-September-15, 16:51, said:

Lets start with the basics:
I can strip squeeze west if he has 4 clubs :),

Also can make when RHO has QJ, 4+ clubs and 6 hearts (or QJ10)

How do you want to strip squeeze West unless East has JT, J9, T9 ? Can you give the ending?

Rainer Herrmann
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 05:20

it is very easy, yoou endplay him with the 4th club and then you claim 1 down. IF he gets greedy and forgets to cash A maybe even this line makes!
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#14 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 06:51

If West is 2272 East is just squeezed without the count.

If West is 1372 or 2371 then on the run of the spades East has to unguard the hearts in order to maintain the link between the hands and stop me just setting up clubs. Then West is squeezed in the reds.

If East has two hearts honours there is a further guard squeeze element, but I don't think that is necesssary here.

The main fly in the ointment is that we may have to guess the ending if East discards cannily. I will cash one round of clubs before running spades to reduce his opportunities for deception.
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#15 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 07:33

Its just cold isnt it? The layout almost doesnt matter. Cash five spades, discarding a diamond, and get to:


Provided east keeps his minor suit cards (else its trivially over), declarer discards a club on the last spade, and plays two rounds of clubs reaching:



and on the last club west gives up his diamond or his heart guard, If he plays a diamond, you can establish dummies second diamond.

As far as I can see this line works 100% provided only that you know what the diamond position is. If it might be 6-3 the defence can easily fool you.
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#16 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 07:35

If east has any two heart honours, you will make it even if he has the diamond ace, provided west has no more than three clubs.
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#17 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 07:54

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#18 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 08:37



This hand is taken from Bird's book "Somehow we landed in Six Notrump" page 50 , Quiz 10.

The solution in the book is that you can give yourself an extra chance should East hold sole guard in hearts and clubs, in which case East will have to discard his diamonds on the run of the spades.
South does likewise, after which you can play 4 rounds of clubs to establish the fifth.
(Should East have 5 clubs he will have to discard one on the run of the spades or relinquish control of the hearts.)
Technically this is called a squeeze without the count, because you rectify the count after the squeeze operated. (In this case squeeze East out of diamonds and a fifth club)

However, it seems to me you can do much better and make the hand as long as East holds at least 3 cards in clubs and you read the end position correctly.
In other words you can make the hand, irrespective how the hearts are distributed.
What is quite common in these positions, you may have a slight guess against world class defenders.
But even then you are a heavy favorite to get it right if you follow the line below.

Manudude03 and MrAce came closest to what looks to me the optimal solution.

View Postmanudude03, on 2012-September-16, 02:14, said:

Let's assume diamonds are 7-2 and East if anyone guards clubs.

I agree. We can not make the hand if West guards clubs and as a working assumption diamonds being 7-2 looks reasonable. Also we assume West to have the A.

However then Manudude03 continues:

Quote

Cash 6 rounds of spades. First discard is a diamond.

A minor point is that we should cash one club before running spades. Should we see 2 club discards on the run of the spades we know then clubs are running.

More important, however, our first discard should depend on, whether East has discarded a diamond or not.
Assume East has discarded no diamonds yet. When we play the penultimate spade we should discard a club.
Only a worldclass defender is likely to refuse to discard a diamond from two on the last spade. Here you must decide whether East has kept 2 diamonds or diamonds are breaking 8-1 all along. In the latter case you would have to discard a diamond.
If East has 2 diamonds left in the ensuing six card ending East must have given up either heart or club control.
Unless we see two club discards, we should assume that East has 4 minor suit cards left in the six card ending and East has given up hearts.
Since only West can now guard hearts, it is safe to give up on the club break and discard another club!!!

The six card ending is



Since West is in sole control of hearts cash both clubs, and if West does not relinquish control of hearts he must blank his diamond ace, upon which we will play the T to establish the K for our 12th trick.

Once East discards a diamond we do likewise. .
If East discards his second diamond we do likewise and get the end play described in the book.

So lets assume East discards just one diamond

The position after all spades have been played will be



We cash the club tops and see East still having control of club and a diamond left and therefore can have just 2 hearts and West controls hearts.
If he does not relinquish control of hearts on the clubs he will have to come down to a singleton diamond ace, upon which we discard a heart on the club from dummy and play the K to establish the 6 in dummy.

Rainer Herrmann
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#19 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-September-16, 09:08

View Postrhm, on 2012-September-16, 08:37, said:

A minor point is that we should cash one club before running spades. Should we see 2 club discards on the run of the spades we know then clubs are running.



I believe one person spotted this wrinkle. It prevents us from going down the wrong path when East throws a club on (say) the fourth spade simulating a 1525, whe he is 1624.
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