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Swiss GP Pairs - 1 How many spades?

Poll: Swiss GP Pairs - 1 (27 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you open? 2nd seat, red on white, MPs

  1. 1S - planning to rebid 2S (3 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. 1S - planning to rebid 4S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 2S (1 votes [3.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  4. 3S (23 votes [85.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 85.19%

  5. 4S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Too dependent on partnership style to answer (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 08:02



Matchpoints
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#2 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 09:06

Almost no defense and suggesting a sacrifice at this vulnerability
is to much like walking a tight rope. 2s lets p know about
the overall weakness of your hand yet at these colors also
shows good enough spades to play opposite a singleton.
p need not fear spade losers and can invite with less than
normal due to knowing the spade suit is better than normal.

Preemption at a low level eliminating trump suit worries for p
and showing little to no defense all wrapped up in a nice cozy

2s bid.


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#3 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 09:15

Obvious 3 for me. Very sound 7 card suit, nothing outside.

At this vulnerability, I would consider 2 if the shape was 7222 or if the suit was weaker. But with this hand, I have no doubts.
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#4 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 09:23

This has to be the most normal 2nd seat red 3 bid ever. There is nothing remotely interesting about this problem.

#forumfail
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#5 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 13:16

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-October-03, 09:23, said:

This has to be the most normal 2nd seat red 3 bid ever. There is nothing remotely interesting about this problem.

#forumfail


Fair enough. I did actually bid 3 at the table but felt I might be a bit heavy and we went on to miss a game. If p has a singleton/void spade, how many points should he need to raise? Are there any hands where he might want to play 3NT instead - I can't think of (m)any.
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#6 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 13:50

It is not a question of points - it is a question of tricks.

For a vul opposite nonvul 3 bid in second seat, one should assume that the bidder has close to 7 tricks. So, responder should bid game if he can produce 3 tricks opposite a typical 7-3-2-1 shaped hand. This is not an exact science, as you don't know for sure if a side suit KQ holding will produce a useful trick for partner. But you can be pretty sure that aces will produce tricks and the A, K or Q of trumps will produce a trick.

A spade void would be a negative factor. Partner might be assuming that his AKQxxxx of spades is worth 7 tricks. But opposite a spade void, it rates to produce only 6 tricks.

A singleton spade is not a plus, but it is not a big minus, either. Partner expects that you would have no more than 2 spades on average, and a singleton spade is not that far off.

As for your second question - whether it makes sense to bid 3NT on some hands. The answer is clearly yes.

The most obvious hand for a 3NT bid would be something like this:

Kxx
Axxx
Kxx
Axx

You can be reasonably sure that your side has 7 spade tricks (assuming partner has at least Axxxxxx for his 3 bid at this seat and vul) and you have 2 sure side tricks. Furthermore, you need to protect your K from being led through on opening lead. 4 might still make, but you can only count 9 tricks - partner's seven spades and your two aces. If the A is behind the K, there might not be a 10th trick in a spade contract.
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#7 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 13:54

View Postbroze, on 2012-October-03, 13:16, said:

Fair enough. I did actually bid 3 at the table but felt I might be a bit heavy and we went on to miss a game...


But what did partner have?
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 16:14

Normal 3 opening. Expect the field to make the same call, so nothing to sweat if you go -200 or partner has some magic cards in clubs and you make 170.
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#9 User is offline   Thiros 

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Posted 2012-October-04, 16:50

View Postbroze, on 2012-October-03, 13:16, said:

Fair enough. I did actually bid 3 at the table but felt I might be a bit heavy and we went on to miss a game. If p has a singleton/void spade, how many points should he need to raise? Are there any hands where he might want to play 3NT instead - I can't think of (m)any.


Did both of your side-suit jacks end up working?

Opening 3 is clear. Second seat red on white, you really need to have the goods.
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