[broze]

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Hand from a recent county pairs event. Do people have agreements in this situation?

My instinct is that pass should be stopper-oriented, probably suggesting a dbl stop in the overcalled suit looking to play 4NT?

[PhilKing]

Pass is encouraging. I think you are being way too specific in trying to dot the i's by specifying two stoppers. If partner has a long suit it is clubs, so pass is encouraging him to bid on when he does. And if he is balanced he will just double.

[dake50]

This looks a middling 1NT. Unusual to have DAK after they sac,
but not worth suggesting defend as eg. DAQJ,DKQx,DAJ10 would. Pass.
Don't send a "you won't like my hand for 5C/6C" message with this hand.

[SteveMoe]

Would have approached this as a forcing pass situation.
... double to show wasted ♦ values or a minimum.
... pass with no wastage and top of bid values.
... bid 4N with a sure stop and a source of tricks.
I wonder if any would bid a 5-card major (partner corrects to 4N if necessary)?

So on this post I double.

[broze]

To skip the analysis and see the full hand scroll down.

PhilKing, on 2012-November-25, 19:33, said:

Pass is encouraging. I think you are being way too specific in trying to dot the i's by specifying two stoppers. If partner has a long suit it is clubs, so pass is encouraging him to bid on when he does. And if he is balanced he will just double.

I like trying to dot the i's because it implies perfection and I'm looking to find the best agreements (not to suggest that what I wrote is best). Pass is obviously encouraging but of what and what does it suggest? Can we keep 4NT, 5C, 4M (where opener has a 5cMajor) and Moysian 4M's?

SteveMoe, on 2012-November-25, 20:59, said:

Would have approached this as a forcing pass situation.
... double to show wasted ♦ values or a minimum.
... pass with no wastage and top of bid values.
... bid 4N with a sure stop and a source of tricks.
I wonder if any would bid a 5-card major (partner corrects to 4N if necessary)?

So on this post I double.

In thinking about this problem I wondered what 4NT would show and have concluded that it is always a big risk. Often partner will have punted 3NT and will be dismayed when you bid 4, knowing that you've probably just given up your plus score. Furthermore, where is your source of tricks? It is unlikely to be in a Major, and also highly unlikely to be in clubs (where are p's tricks when he has not bid Stayman or made a transfer?) It is much better just to leave p as captain of the hand and convey a message in the safest way possible (p or x).


I would have more sympathy for bidding an immediate 4M but only on very particular hands: max for the 1NT, no ♦ wastage e.g. xxx(x) or with an excellent ♦ holding AQ or AK tight for example and a (semi-)solid 5cM since bad splits are likely. There is not too much chance of p holding a singleton since he is likely to be short in ♦ and has not Staymanned.


The sacrificer's hand is likely to be very specific and these are the bids that are easiest to find good defences against, however we only really have pass or double available.

Overcaller is assuming 3NT is a make and hoping to get out in 4♦x-3 or better. I would want to hold a hand with exactly 6 or 7 losers, the latter needing one trick from p. Any less and there is too much of a risk of 4♦x-4 and any more we are probably beating 3NT.

Furthermore the overcaller will probably have only 2 losers in the trump suit. (Maybe even one loser, since although with one loser and an outside entry he might expect to beat 3NT, he won't be getting a ♦ lead without a double so a sac might be a good bet? e.g. sitting 4th seat with Axx xxx KQJTxxx x or Axx xxx AQJTxx x would you double or bid 4♦?

One might bid 4♦ with hands such as:

KQ JT985432 J4 9

7 J9542 KJ98763 --

8 KQ75 QJT432 J7

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That third hand is the one that was bid against me. Here is the full hand:

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I chose to double looking at my minimum NT opener with no source of tricks; in hindsight I think a pass is clear. We only took 4♦x off two for a near-bottom (off 3 scoring exactly the same). Par is 5C by NS but in reality 4NT will make after the inevitable ♦ lead.

I would not be sure what to do on the following hand, rearranging the suits slightly I would like the chances of 4NT with ♦ stopped twice but would also like my defence. All in all an interesting situation imo.

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