[Cyberyeti]

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All vul pairs, this sequence is Acol, but I'd imagine most non 2/1 naturalish systems are similar

Partner opens 1♠, you bid 1N (not forcing or semi forcing), partner bids 2♣, over to you, partner has 11-16 ish with 5+ spades and 4+ clubs

[the_clown]

It seems that any plus score will be good so I wouldnt worry about playing in a minor and will bid 2♦.

[gszes]

Finally a hand that makes one happy to be a bridge player and not a chess player.

Why (in pairs) did my partner run from the number 1 MP spot of 1n to (arguably one
of the worst MP spots) 2c? Since our p is presumably on our side we have to suspect
that their hand has some form of (serious?) distributional flaw that makes playing in the
number 1 MP spot (i think i mentioned that before) seem wrong.

Aside from the distributional problem there is also the added problem of how strong p
is. The range of the 2c bid can be dead minimum all the way up to a unbalanced NT power
hand. Since we are far from minimum with our 2 quick tricks and maybe even a helpful J
in p spades it might be beneficial for our side to keep the bidding open so p can express
more power than they could over our 1n response.

IMO while a pass of 2c might be the only way of keeping things from getting worse, I will
normally strain to keep from playing 2c because of its low ranking on the MP scoring list
(dead last maybe?). This hand has the options of 2d and 2h available for those of us that
are straining to reach a higher level on the MP scoring table than 2c.

2h easily has the chance of scoring the best overall because it is the only strain where
game might be available. Not only that 2h is right near the top of the MP scoring list. I
think 2h is fatally flawed here however since we could easily be going from a 52 club
fit to a 50 heart fit (and lousy hearts to boot). Not only that but if we were to choose the
next bid we could still end up in hearts. I recommend we try

2D

No better than 2c on MP scoring list we at least have the comfort to know that in a dia
contact there is a fair chance our trick production may soar all the way to 5 tricks from a
mere 2 tricks in any other contract and (since p can bid 2h with a 5305 hand) we do not have
the same fear of being stuck in a 50 fit like we could be if we chose 2h. The 2d bid also keeps
the door slightly open for 3n. If p can pipe up over 2d and bid 2n our doubleton club (partner
has to fear a misfit) might now help establish club tricks and allows us to bid 3n. If p really
hates our 2d bid and bids 2h we can now bid 3h (since p will rarely choose a 2c rebid over a 2h
rebid with a 5404 hand) p will realize we probably have at least 5 (crummy) hearts (and at least
5 dia) for this bidding and still some reason to look for game. We opt for the 2d bid because there
are so many ways our score can improve by not passing.

[Fluffy]

4-2 clubs is a decent spot when partner has ♠A. Pass also guarantees partner will not go to the 3 level

[the_clown]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-07, 09:38, said:

4-2 clubs is a decent spot when partner has ♠A. Pass also guarantees partner will not go to the 3 level

Unfortunately my opponents always lead a trump on this auction without looking at their cards.

[lalldonn]

Fluffy sorry I think pass is insane. You could have game. It's one thing to pass when game is possible when you at least know you are in a decent fit or your best fit, but here you are usually in a dumb fit also. I would much rather bid either red suit.

[mikeh]

I think this is a fairly clear 2♦ bid even with the siren call of the red major beckoning.

Pass is out, for the reasons set out by Josh.

I pick 2♦ because my top trump mean that the opps can't pull trump before I elope with some small ones by ruffing black cards, and because partner may make a magic 2♥ call on a good 5=3=1=4 hand. while he won't be able to bid 3♦over my 2♥with 5134: he might bid 2N, but I wouldn't be comfortable bidding 3N with this hand nor would I be comfortable bidding 3♦.

[JLOGIC]

2D is clear cuz every other option is just so lol. How bad can bidding AKTxx be compared to passing 2C with 2 small, or bidding Txxxx, or preferencing back to our stiff, or inviting with a misfitting 8 count? There is really nothing reasonable other than 2D.

[Cyberyeti]

OK, your bonus question:

You opt to bid 2♦ as I did at the table

a) LHO doubles - what are XX and 2♥ from partner

b) LHO passes - what is 2♥ from partner

[dwar0123]

Well, the auction precludes the possibility that 2♥ is game forcing, so its an offer to play.

xx I would take as a suggestion that the opponents have just stuck their neck in a noose and maybe we should hang them. I wouldn't take it as sos.

[P_Marlowe]

2S

Old problem, 2D / 2H show a 6 carder, you could
argue we have 6 diamonds, ..., I decided long ago,
I will go back to partners first suit.

..................................................

Re Bonus question

XX is for money
2H ..., with 5440 and 54 in the majors, partner should
show hearts, hence wthout the X, 2H is FSF for us, and
I dont see any reason to interpret 2H different after a X.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gszes]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-07, 13:42, said:

OK, your bonus question:

You opt to bid 2♦ as I did at the table

a) LHO doubles - what are XX and 2♥ from partner

b) LHO passes - what is 2♥ from partner

IMO 2h in both cases says please pick something other than 2d

pass does not want to bid 3d can at least stand 2d not strong enough for xx
3d weak 4135 type hand blocking
xx says i LIKE that 2d bid my hand just improved a lot and maybe we should
be considering game or xing whatever the opps try and run to.

It seems illogical for p to suddenly have a game forcing hand after bidding 2c.
We should concentrate our efforts on obtaining the best MP score we can
especially if we are going to be playing in diamonds.

[Cyberyeti]

The full hand was this (some of my original minor spots were wrong)

---

Partner butchered the play and only emerged with one overtrick, on the diamond lead he got, if you simply ruff dummy's diamonds having pitched dummy's spade on the clubs you make 10 pretty trivially (opening leader made it easy by playing 58 on the diamonds so it was clear playing MUD he had another), leading a trump at any point is bad for declarer. 4♥ went 2 off and 3 off at other tables, but also made doubled. We weren't the only +870.

When partner bid 2♥ I very nearly fell from grace by thinking redouble would be SOS here so 2♥ wasn't natural.

I thought it was an interesting problem, and glad several people agreed with 2♦.

[Fluffy]

less people will agee with 2♣ though

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-08, 10:53, said:

less people will agee with 2♣ though

It's what we bid on these hands. 2♥ gives partner a nasty problem with say Jx, x, Kxxx, Jxxxxx, he prob just bids 2♠. Now make that Jx, Jxxxxx, Kxxx, x and rebid 2♣, he probably bids 2♥.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah, but finding 4-4 heart fits is very important, that is why bidding 2H is normal.

[the hog]

Pass is ludicrous of course. 2D is clear on this hand.

[ggwhiz]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-07, 13:42, said:

OK, your bonus question:

You opt to bid 2♦ as I did at the table

a) LHO doubles - what are XX and 2♥ from partner

b) LHO passes - what is 2♥ from partner

2♥ = 5-3-1-4 XX = 5-1-3-4 both with a limited max.

Those shapes are approximate but we pattern out like this in my partnership and base our next bid on it.

[rmnka447]

2 ♦. It allows pard the most room to manuever and shows where my values are. If pard rebids in another suit, I sit -- we'll be in a decent contract.

Bonus

a) If pard can't sit for 2 ♦ Dbld, then any suit rebid should be natural -- 2 ♥ shows a ♥ fragment. With a doubleton ♦, I think pard sits for 2 ♦ Dbled. So, I'd take Redbl as showing ♦ support.

b) Should be some sort of ♥ holding.