BBO Discussion Forums: Fast arrival - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Fast arrival Does a game bid encourage or discourage

#1 User is offline   ucrman 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 2006-April-02
  • Location:Albany, NY

Posted 2013-March-06, 17:03

After the auction 1H-1S-3S-4C, does a 4H bid or a pass offer more encouragement to go on? 3S was a splinter in support of Hs.
0

#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,582
  • Joined: 2009-September-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 2013-March-06, 17:06

The usual agreement is that 4 is a sign-off and 4 a last-train type bid, but it is possible to reverse these meanings, or to play them differently depending on whether one or more hands have been limited.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

#3 User is offline   Codo 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,373
  • Joined: 2003-March-15
  • Location:Hamburg, Germany
  • Interests:games and sports, esp. bridge,chess and (beach-)volleyball

Posted 2013-March-07, 03:32

Did I understood this right- both opponents bid?

I do play this:
pass: no club control
4 club control and diamond control SI
4 club control, but hates the splinter
X Club control, SI

But this is surely not standard.
In general, 4 would be less encouraging in this situation.
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
0

#4 User is offline   PhilKing 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,240
  • Joined: 2012-June-25

Posted 2013-March-07, 06:27

When the opponents bid to the four level, we can DOUBLE THEM FOR PENALTIES. Not all of our options should be geared towards slam bidding - some should deal with the mundane. With that in mind:

Double = penalties
Pass = I have nothing to say
4 = slam try
4 = I would like to play in Four Hearts

Pass is not encouraging (though it is unlimited), but it keeps open the option of defending. Four hearts should be a decent minimum, giving partner the option to bid 5 over 4.
0

#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,663
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2013-March-07, 06:45

Phil, what is the difference for you between a direct 4 and Pass followed by removing partner's double to 4?
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
0

#6 User is offline   PhilKing 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,240
  • Joined: 2012-June-25

Posted 2013-March-07, 06:51

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-March-07, 06:45, said:

Phil, what is the difference for you between a direct 4 and Pass followed by removing partner's double to 4?


N/a, because the next hand is probably about to bid 4. 4 is often (usually) a raise to 4 and definitely is for many pairs. If I pass 4 I am almost certainly passing a double.

My only explicit slam try below game is 4 (train).
0

#7 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,564
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2013-March-07, 10:47

1H-(1S)-3S-(4C)
?


First pass is the strongest of bids below 4H, in my mind, and 4H bid here is the weakest. I agree that 4C is penalty oriented if 4C is to natural to play, I assume however, but maybe wrong that 4C is probably a fit nonjump setting defense against a heart contract and showing a raise to 4S.

Pass followed by pull of dbl to 4D is stronger than an immediate 4D.

Some reverse the meaning of "forcing pass" of course.
--Ben--

#8 User is offline   ucrman 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 2006-April-02
  • Location:Albany, NY

Posted 2013-March-07, 10:57

The actual auction was 1H-1S-3S-4D. In this auction there was no slam try below 4H.
0

#9 User is offline   PhilKing 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,240
  • Joined: 2012-June-25

Posted 2013-March-07, 11:09

View Postinquiry, on 2013-March-07, 10:47, said:

1H-(1S)-3S-(4C)
?


First pass is the strongest of bids below 4H, in my mind, and 4H bid here is the weakest. I agree that 4C is penalty oriented if 4C is to natural to play, I assume however, but maybe wrong that 4C is probably a fit nonjump setting defense against a heart contract and showing a raise to 4S.

Pass followed by pull of dbl to 4D is stronger than an immediate 4D.

Some reverse the meaning of "forcing pass" of course.


It's not a fast arrival situation at all, because the destination on the front of the train is 4.

Assuming 4 is a spade raise, they are committed to play in 4x unless we bid in front of them. So if we prefer to defend 4x than play 4, double 4. If we are not sure (ie we want to defend 4x if partner has a nondescript 1444, but want to play 5 opposite, say, a 1543 hand with decent playing strength, we pass.

So it is logical that 4 encourages partner to bid 5 over 4 unless he has rubbish. In fact, it is encouraging, period.

We could invert the meaning of double and pass, but not that of 4.

View Postucrman, on 2013-March-07, 10:57, said:

The actual auction was 1H-1S-3S-4D. In this auction there was no slam try below 4H.


It seems optimal to play 4 (which is essentially an idle bid) as mildly encouraging, since with waste in spades we would prefer to make them play 4x.
0

#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2013-March-07, 11:36

View Postucrman, on 2013-March-07, 10:57, said:

The actual auction was 1H-(1S)-3S-(4D). In this auction there was no slam try below 4H.

I think we could have two last trains, if we wanted in this variation. Pass without a club control and double with. We don't have room, IMO, to consult partner about bidding 5H/4S if we are not slamming, but she will know if she has the extra offense or defense to choose.

With the (OP) 4 call, we seem to have 4 last train with a club control, and double or pass for the LT without ---the other one showing willingness for pard to compete at the 5-level.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users