[Fluffy]

sound raise about 8-10

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what is your plan when 3 ♦ comes back?

[helene_t]

I double 3♣ just in case but over 3♦x I am worth a game try, 3♥ should be a generic game try now.

[gnasher]

I wouldn't have bid only 2♠. This was worth at least an invitational raise.

Anyway, it may have worked out well. I'd double 3♣, because we should be able to take it apart by forcing the long hand. It doesn't seem very likely that they'll pull this - RHO could have passed 2NTx with equal length - but if they do I'll accept partner's double. If they run and partner doesn't double 3♦, I'll bid 4♠.

[ewj]

gnasher, on 2013-March-27, 03:40, said:

I wouldn't have bid only 2♠. This was worth at least an invitational raise.

Anyway, it may have worked out well. I'd double 3♣, because we should be able to take it apart by forcing the long hand. It doesn't seem very likely that they'll pull this - RHO could have passed 2NTx with equal length - but if they do I'll accept partner's double. If they run and partner doesn't double 3♦, I'll bid 4♠.

I suppose 2NT might have been the red suits. But I agree that our hand is very nice...obviously double now and 3H sounds like the ticket

[mikeh]

gnasher, on 2013-March-27, 03:40, said:

I wouldn't have bid only 2♠. This was worth at least an invitational raise.

Anyway, it may have worked out well. I'd double 3♣, because we should be able to take it apart by forcing the long hand. It doesn't seem very likely that they'll pull this - RHO could have passed 2NTx with equal length - but if they do I'll accept partner's double. If they run and partner doesn't double 3♦, I'll bid 4♠.

Andy, you missed the explanation of 2N. I would give long odds that LHO is pulling the double, because it has to be 90%+ that he has the reds. And I am not defending 3♦ if LHO bids it, partner doubles, and rho passes. I have the worst possible red suit holding given that rho's pass would show preference for diamonds over hearts.

[aguahombre]

helene_t, on 2013-March-27, 02:55, said:

I double 3♣ just in case but over 3♦x I am worth a game try, 3♥ should be a generic game try now.

IMO, like others, I surely would have shown an invite the first time, not some mere constructive raise. But, how does partner cooperating by doubling 3♦ make my hand a game try now when I didn't consider it to be one before?

[PhilKing]

I'm just going to bid 4♠. I don't see how partner can ever play us for an ace, a king, a singleton, four trumps, the Holy Grail and Flight 19. He has shown a good hand, so take the pressure off.

Also, by bidding game now, you do not allow East to find out his partner holds the reds.

[ewj]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-27, 09:15, said:

I'm just going to bid 4♠. I don't see how partner can ever play us for an ace, a king, a singleton, four trumps, the Holy Grail and Flight 19. He has shown a good hand, so take the pressure off.

Also, by bidding game now, you do not allow East to find out his partner holds the reds.

Yes that's an excellent point. I overlooked that partner had shown something extra and we might elicit an "agressive" club lead which gains us a trick....I mean if it's teams I can't possibly imagine not playing game here

[lalldonn]

I much prefer double now to bidding 4♠ at this vul. We don't need many tricks to get a big penalty, we can always bid 4♠ later, and at this vul I hardly think they will bid 5 of a red suit.

[Phil]

Double is easy. RHO might just have clubs (he could have passed) and partner has both red suits wedged over the bidder.

[Codo]

I had "easily" doubled too, but Phil convinced me that 4 ♠ is by far superior. I am not at all interessted in 3 ♦ X, so what do I wait for?

[MrAce]

What PhilKing said sounds very good to my ear. Put me down for 4♠ as well.

[lalldonn]

If you don't want to defend 3♦X then you can still bid 4♠ later. But maybe they will get to 3♣X or 3♥X so why not give them a chance first? I just don't see the point of bidding game now. What's the rush? Will the R/W opponents be able to successfully bid 5 of something on a hand they would have passed had we bid 4♠? That sounds extremely farfetched to me, in fact I think I'm being kind.

[PhilKing]

lalldonn, on 2013-March-28, 15:27, said:

If you don't want to defend 3♦X then you can still bid 4♠ later.

There is no "if", although it could go for 800 if lefty is a psycho. Don't get me wrong - I'm quite tempted to double 3♣ and sit for 3♦, but I have decided not to because my hand is outside of my range. I am never doubling 3♣ and then pulling 3♦ though for the reason below.

But maybe they will get to 3♣X or 3♥X so why not give them a chance first? I just don't see the point of bidding game now. What's the rush?

The rush is that 4♠ may hinge on the lead. If we double 3♣ and pull 3♦x to 4♠, you have just given them a road map to a heart. Whilst it's possible that righty is 4522, and lefty 0355, I'm not buying it. We ain't defending 3♣ doubled and I don't really see how we are going to get to defend 3♥x. They have at least an eight card fit, presumably in diamonds, but I am the only person at the table privy to that information. I would rather keep it that way until they have let 4♠ through on the opening lead, and if the happens one time in ten, I am happy.

Will the R/W opponents be able to successfully bid 5 of something on a hand they would have passed had we bid 4♠? That sounds extremely farfetched to me, in fact I think I'm being kind.

Kind to whom? Noone mentioned 5♦x, which is obviously very unlikely.

.

[lalldonn]

I suppose I interpreted your comment of rho finding out his partner has the red suits as suggesting they would find a bid at the 5 level. Obviously you meant it as helping him on the lead. I am also not totally concerned about that. He might find out his partner has the red suits and lead a diamond to let us make. He might lead a heart and find that lets us make (qx into declarer's kjx, kx i to declarer's ajx). If he has a 3C bid and you jump to game over it he will probably not lead a club since he will not think he is leading through your kxx or anything.

I also think you underestimate the chances that they are in big trouble. They don't always find their best fit on these auctions. They may even be in the middle of a major misunderstanding leading to a disaster, rho making the same bid he would have made without partner's double, lho thinking this shows a genuine club suit and passing with the red suits. Or maybe 3C does show a genuine suit but lho doesn't pass with his 2551 and his partner is 2227. There are a lot of ways they can be in big trouble here.