[Free]

Jinksy, on 2013-April-15, 11:21, said:

In Fantunes' actual system, they'd open the N hand 1H rather than 2, presumably on the grounds that with both majors the potential downsides of preempting are greater, and the potential upsides smaller.

No matter how much I try to make it fit, I can't see a sensible way of making that work for a mortal partnership without screwing up your slam-seeking sequences (according to Dan O'Neill's transcription IIRC, over a 2/1 GF followed by a bid showing the other major, potentially as weak as this, they just continue the GF...). So our current compromise is just not to open these.

I used to play some version of Fantunes. There were lots of issues we were able to resolve (like 1m-2M GF with 5+M was awful in our opinion) and we experimented with 1M being either 11-13 with 5M-4OM or 14+ with 5+M. We couldn't make this work either. So we went back to opening these 2M and accepted the swings.

[Jinksy]

Free, on 2013-April-15, 21:33, said:

I used to play some version of Fantunes. There were lots of issues we were able to resolve (like 1m-2M GF with 5+M was awful in our opinion) and we experimented with 1M being either 11-13 with 5M-4OM or 14+ with 5+M. We couldn't make this work either. So we went back to opening these 2M and accepted the swings.

Did you ever try passing the weaker 5M4M ones? I haven't yet had a major disaster from it (this hand is probably the worst result in that we missed 3S, and opening 2H would have helped that). I can certainly believe opening them might work better, but if partner knows you could have those hands you seem to lose a lot of the downside of passing them - you're unlikely to be shut out of the auction if the hand belongs to your side.

[aguahombre]

Jinksy, on 2013-April-21, 05:03, said:

Did you ever try passing the weaker 5M4M ones? I haven't yet had a major disaster from it (this hand is probably the worst result in that we missed 3S, and opening 2H would have helped that). I can certainly believe opening them might work better, but if partner knows you could have those hands you seem to lose a lot of the downside of passing them - you're unlikely to be shut out of the auction if the hand belongs to your side.

As a mere observer of methods where the given hand doesn't fit into a pair's opening bid structure, my opinion is that passing should be o.k. The OP scenario is not really a good basis for discussion of that issue, since what happened afterward was too weird.

[elwood913]

I play a fantunes style where:
1M is always 14+
2M is 10-13, any 6+ or 5+ w/ 4+ in a minor (but not some 5422)
2♦ is both M's. Typically 10-13, any distribution 5+/4+ in the M's (though 12-14, 4-4(41) is possible).

The given hand would fit perfectly into this opening.

We get some of our best results with the 2♦ bid.
If Resp has enough to ask we can find out about opener's specific distribution and strength, and these auctions are very good. If they don't, we often land in a reasonable 2M partscore and have enjoyed quite a bit of preemption. The overall effect is great. We get a few rotten scores, but the good games and slams, the wins in many partscore battles, and the relatively safe premptive effect when it's their hand far outweigh the few clunkers.

[WellSpyder]

elwood913, on 2013-April-24, 01:28, said:

I play a fantunes style where:
1M is always 14+
2M is 10-13, any 6+ or 5+ w/ 4+ in a minor (but not some 5422)
2♦ is both M's. Typically 10-13, any distribution 5+/4+ in the M's (though 12-14, 4-4(41) is possible).

Interesting. What do you do with the hands on which Fantunes would open 2♦, ie 10-13 with 6+♦ or 5♦+4other (not 5422)? With the bottom end of this range you could pass, I guess, but surely not with the top end?

[elwood913]

We lose a little here, because our 1♦has to include all unbalanced hands with ♦'s, hence we play it 11+, typically 5+♦ and an unbalanced hand. Balanced hands with ♦'s open weak NT or 1♣. So we have to choose at first bid how we want to describe the hand and will often lose the diamonds if we go the balanced route.

Opener's rebid is a little trickier due to the wider range, since p is still forced to bid, but in most cases we can describe our range either 11-14, 15-17, or 18+ and get out our level of support for p or our second suit.