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surreal and more surreal

#1 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 13:02

I am hearing that the Democrats shut down the government!

If the shut down works out well, historians will say it was a brilliant and courageous Republican action.

If the shut down works out badly, historians will say that it was a stupid and reckless Republican action.

There is no chance in Hell or anywhere else that shutting down the government will come to be seen as a Democratic action.

If Republicans are not prepared to stand up and shout "We did it, we did it and we are proud that we did it" then maybe they shouldn't have done it.

These guys get weirder by the day.
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#2 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 13:11

View Postkenberg, on 2013-October-01, 13:02, said:

I am hearing that the Democrats shut down the government!

Turn off Hannity, it rots the brain.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
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#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 13:35

View Postbillw55, on 2013-October-01, 13:11, said:

Turn off Hannity, it rots the brain.

Could be worse. It could be Glenn Beck.

Although, come to think of it, has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time? Maybe one is the alter ego of the other.
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#4 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 14:05

Somehow I have missed the edification of both of these gents. I don't mean just on this, I have never heard either of them, as far as I know. Never seen, or is it never heard, Rush Limbaugh either.

No doubt this explains a lot. My peace of mind, for example.The lifeguard at the pool recently commented that I always appear to be happy. Perhaps I should explain this secret to her.
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#5 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 14:17

View Postkenberg, on 2013-October-01, 14:05, said:

Somehow I have missed the edification of both of these gents. I don't mean just on this, I have never heard either of them, as far as I know. Never seen, or is it never heard, Rush Limbaugh either.

No doubt this explains a lot. My peace of mind, for example.The lifeguard at the pool recently commented that I always appear to be happy. Perhaps I should explain this secret to her.

Well, knowing about them, and even occasionally listening to them, has not affected my peace of mind or happiness. They can be downright amusing in small doses.

But back to the OP: sure enough, I just heard on the radio a congressman from my state ATB to democrats. I predict this will persuade exactly zero people.
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#6 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 14:23

I don't generally get into political arguments. For example, I will not discuss the merit of the words used to describe what is going on now in Washington. Just suffice it to say some say it say that most of the media is calling it "a government shut down", while the entire Fox news organization has started referring to it to a "government slim down."

However, I will say this. I live in far northern Florida so I get ads for people running for congress from both Georgia and Florida on the TV and in the newspapers. The republican (or maybe Tea party republicans) ran on a platform of "shutting down the government" in the 2010 mid-term elections. That is, they promised to shut down the government if they were elected. Earlier the idea was the government was spending too much, so they were going to shut it down to save money or some such. Now it is to shut it down to "stop obamacare". The downgrading of the USA financial rating back two years ago when they threatened not to pay our debts was also a planned strategy by the same people.

Since many ran on a platform of shutting down the government, I certainly can not blame them for doing what they "promised" when they ran for office. They said they were going to do it, and they have done it. I will say, however, it was not ALL the republicans that ran on such a platform. I do find it strange that so many of the moderate (or at least more moderate than those who ran for office to "shut it down") support this action, but in the house they did. The public record and the apparent gleefulness for the lack of a better word of those members who promised this to their constituents and who have delivered on their promise can only point to the republicans who actively wanted too and in the end did shut down the government.

The looming battle over the debt issue later this month where everything from late term abortion, oil rights, pipelines, epa restrictions, obamacare, etc will be on the table as "ransom" (choose your own word) to prevent taking us into default on our federal loans is quite disturbing. Unlike many of the people I have talked too, I have no doubt the congress is going to actually have us default on our federal debt this year, running America's credit, raising future debt interest rates, and damaging America and world economy for years to come.

On the plus side, there is more time for many, many federal employees to play bridge on BBO. Sigh.
--Ben--

#7 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 15:11

Surreal is a great word for what is going on.


You can shut the govt down but you cant stop it from spending and spending. At this point it seems like a zombie government, you can kill it and yet it lives,it has a life of its own. These guys still get paid..YIKES! :)
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#8 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 15:16

Ezra Klein's succinct take on current events is:

This is all about stopping a law that increases taxes on rich people and reduces subsidies to private insurers in Medicare in order to help low-income Americans buy health insurance. Thatís it. Thatís why the Republican Party shut down the government and may default on the debt.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#9 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 15:26

View Posty66, on 2013-October-01, 15:16, said:

Ezra Klein's succinct take on current events is:

This is all about stopping a law that increases taxes on rich people and reduces subsidies to private insurers in Medicare in order to help low-income Americans buy health insurance. Thatís it. Thatís why the Republican Party shut down the government and may default on the debt.




thanks I just knew it was rich people and those evil insurance companies behind this but glad at least one poster and Klein are not afraid to speak up.
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#10 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 16:08

Here is my prediction.

1) The shutdown (and government debt default) will continue until Election Day 2014.

2) When Winter is sufficiently over, one of the districts that elected the most rabid Republicans pushing for the shut down will find itself Occupied. Local law enforcement will be overwhelmed and the National Guard will be called in. Several people will be shot, and the Army will take over. Martial law will be declared. We will find that this turn of events alters the politics not one bit.
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#11 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 16:22

You are taking the thread's title too seriously.Or as a challenge, perhaps.
Ken
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#12 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 20:37

View Postakwoo, on 2013-October-01, 16:08, said:

Here is my prediction.

1) The shutdown (and government debt default) will continue until Election Day 2014.

2) When Winter is sufficiently over, one of the districts that elected the most rabid Republicans pushing for the shut down will find itself Occupied. Local law enforcement will be overwhelmed and the National Guard will be called in. Several people will be shot, and the Army will take over. Martial law will be declared. We will find that this turn of events alters the politics not one bit.

This may be one of the silliest posts I have seen on this site. And that is saying something.
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#13 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 21:53

I mostly agree with the following take on the idea of raising the debt ceiling:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
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#14 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-October-01, 23:09

View Postnigel_k, on 2013-October-01, 21:53, said:

I mostly agree with the following take on the idea of raising the debt ceiling:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.


Nomination for second silliest post?

By the way, the debt ceiling, in and of itself, is one of the silliest things that we have to deal with. I don't believe any other country has to deal with a debt ceiling.
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#15 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 06:14

I regard the argument cited by Nigel as having the form "This is why it had to be done". I disagree with it, but I credit it with being miles ahead of the argument "It's the Dems who shut down the government". The Reps did it, and whatever comes of it, good or bad, the Reps own it. And I think it is going to be bad, very bad.

Some things should not be done. Shutting down the government is one of them. People are suddenly out of work. Children of working parents are finding that the Headstart classes that they atttend are not open. And the PandaCam is shut down. OK a little grim humor there. People, and political parties, are partly judged ny their restraint, their willingness to not do what they have the power to do. And they are judged by the results of what they do.

There is no way to spin this. The Republicans shut down many services and laid off many workers. They will be judged by the results of their actions.
Ken
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#16 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 07:10

The Congress of the United States is to blame for this. Politics is about compromise. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have forgotten this.
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#17 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 07:27

View Postblackshoe, on 2013-October-02, 07:10, said:

The Congress of the United States is to blame for this. Politics is about compromise. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have forgotten this.


There are many areas where blame, or credit, can be shared. This is not one of them. If this works out well, it will be a great Republican victory. If it works out poorly, as I expect it will, it will be a Republican disaster. Yes, we all have our failings, we all can be short-sighted, we should all try harder, etc, but the shutdown is a Republican show. The consequences are theirs to enjoy.
Ken
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 07:34

View Postakwoo, on 2013-October-01, 16:08, said:

Here is my prediction.

1) The shutdown (and government debt default) will continue until Election Day 2014.

2) When Winter is sufficiently over, one of the districts that elected the most rabid Republicans pushing for the shut down will find itself Occupied. Local law enforcement will be overwhelmed and the National Guard will be called in. Several people will be shot, and the Army will take over. Martial law will be declared. We will find that this turn of events alters the politics not one bit.


BTW your post reminds me of the song OHIO. Surreal:




From what I understand the military is the only part of the government not shut down so we dont need to bother declaring martial law everthing else is closed. :)
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#19 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 08:00

View Postblackshoe, on 2013-October-02, 07:10, said:

The Congress of the United States is to blame for this. Politics is about compromise. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have forgotten this.


The Tea Party, a small faction within the Republican party, caused this mess by refusing to accept the results of democracy. In order, the Affordable Care Act was passed by both the House and Senate, two chances to stop the implementation. Both times the bill passed. It was then signed into law by the President. After which, the law was unsuccessfully challenged in the U.S. Supreme Court, which found it legal. Following that loss, the Republicans had one more chance to prevent implementation by winning the national elections - and their ideology was once again defeated except in areas where gerrymandering ensured victory (Democrats received more total votes than Republicans for House seats but lost the majority, regardless.)

Now, after having had multiple legal and ethical chances to alter the will of the people, this small minority has decided that it knows what is best for everyone else and will hold the US hostage to its demands to defund a law it does not like.

When these people were 3-years-old, their parents should have taught them that "you can't always get what you want, but if you try you just might find, you get what you need."
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#20 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted 2013-October-02, 08:45

My representative from the Michigan first district, Dan Benishek, is part of the faction that has closed down the US government. His win last year in our newly gerrymandered district was razor-thin (the closeness of our race was a sub-plot in the Newsroom TV show this year), so we're trying to get through to him the impact of what he is doing.

Our former representative, Bart Stupak, would always respond right away to suggestions and criticisms, but so far sending emails to Benishek is like dropping them into a black hole.
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