[movingon]

I ordinarily play support doubles for the majors through 2 hearts?

What do you recommend? Is it better to play them through 2 spades?

[mgoetze]

movingon, on 2014-September-07, 16:46, said:

What do you recommend? Is it better to play them through 2 spades?

Depends ... do you enjoy playing 4-3 fits at the 3 level?

[SteveMoe]

Through 2♥ as mgoetze recommends.
However if you like to shake it up a bit, then include up to 3♥ as long as the intervention is clearly a preempt. Do not do this with a penalty pass hand. Doubling a preempt in this approach shows extras (for the level) and shortness in the intervenor's suit. Partner can convert to penalty with the right hand.

[whereagles]

I stopped using them, but my rule used to be "X = support as long as 2 of responder's major can be played". Higher than that double would be general take out.

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 07:57, said:

"... but my rule used to be "X = support as long as 2 of responder's major can be played"....

Which, of course, means that you play support doubles through 2♥.I have never seen them played to a higher level. That doesn't mean that there isn't some pair out there that plays support doubles to a higher level. It is just that I have not seen it.

[whereagles]

Well, it's through 2♠

1x (pass) 1♠ (2♠) (regardless of what it is)
dbl = support

Ok ok just being picky

[Trinidad]

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 08:50, said:

Well, it's through 2♠

1x (pass) 1♠ (2♠) (regardless of what it is)
dbl = support

Ok ok just being picky

That's how I play them.

And no, it is not at all picky to point this out, since it can be a source for misunderstandings.

Another, similar source for misunderstandings is the use of DOPI (or PODI) and DEPO (/DOPE). It is generally recommended to use DOPI for interference below 5 of our trump suit and DEPO for interference above 5 of our trump suit. This recommendation does not mention what to use when the opponents bid precisely 5 of our trump suit. It is just great to mess around with opponents by bidding 5 of their trump suit. We use DEPO for 5 of our trump suit and higher.

Rik

[kgr]

1S-(P)-2D-(2H)
DBL
this is also support DBL (or strong) in our system...als if opp did bid 3.

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 08:50, said:

Well, it's through 2♠

1x (pass) 1♠ (2♠) (regardless of what it is)
dbl = support

Ok ok just being picky

I don't play this as a support double. But then, quite frankly, I can't remember the last time (or if) this auction came up.

The rule, as you stated it to be, was that the choice has to be whether to support partner by raising to 2 of his major (which shows 4 card support) or by doubling (which shows 3 card support). If you cannot raise partner by bidding 2 of his major, support doubles are off.

[whereagles]

Common lore this side of the pond is that
1x pass 1y 2y

is a natural bid, showing a sound overcall with good suit, usually 6 cards. It is not common, but it does come up every 100-200 hands or so (I might be a bit off here, though.. didn't run a sim on it yet).

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 09:36, said:

Common lore this side of the pond is that
1x pass 1y 2y

is a natural bid, showing a sound overcall with good suit, usually 6 cards. It is not common, but it does come up every 100-200 hands or so (I might be a bit off here, though.. didn't run a sim on it yet).

Sure, that is true. And I have made the bid on occasion as natuaral. But for some reason I don't remember anyone bidding it against me.

And that just points out the silliness of the double being a support double.

[whereagles]

I'm not so sure

1x-pass-1y-2y
dbl = support

is a useless bid.


First of all, 2y may be artificial (I've seen it being played as some type of 6-4). In this case dbl=supp digs up 5-3 fits for free.


Also, if 2y is natural, dbl warns of suit breaking 3145/3046/3055. If you play dbl = general take out and 2y is passed to pard, he may be weary to dbl with JTxx in suit y. If dbl = supp, it's easier for him to diagnose the misfit. Of course, this isn't error-proof... opener may have say AQ in suit y and may simply want to dbl for penalties.


Well, anyways, you can play it the way you prefer.

[jogs]

movingon, on 2014-September-07, 16:46, said:

I ordinarily play support doubles for the majors through 2 hearts?

What do you recommend? Is it better to play them through 2 spades?

You can play them as high as you want. From 2 spades on a pass does not deny 3 card support. The double shows 3 card support and extras. It is not as if there were a better use of the double.

Even on the two level a pass does not deny 3 card support.

1♦ - pass - 1♠ - 2♥
?

♠ xxx ♥ QJx ♦ KQxx ♣ KJx

Pass might be better than double with this hand.

[mike777]

ya better to assume pass does deny 3 card support if you are going to open hands this crappy...which I do.

Thru 2h as most posters say.

[PhantomSac]

Def play X of 2 of partners major as takeout.

[mcphee]

I like support dbles as I feel it is a useful toy, and normally play them through 2H unless partner has made a 2/1 in which case I play them throught 2N.

[jogs]

mike777, on 2014-September-08, 20:15, said:

ya better to assume pass does deny 3 card support if you are going to open hands this crappy...which I do.

Thru 2h as most posters say.

Hope you meant does NOT deny 3 card support due to crappy hand.

♠ xxx ♥ QJx ♦ KQxx ♣ KQx

Even with this hand pass may be better than double. This hand is only worth 10 HCP in spades. It is no longer an opening hand.

[wodahs]

I use a wrinkle that you might call Transfer Support Doubles. You can use this method through levels higher than 2♥. You begin a transfer ladder with double. The transfers continue through the suit below partner's.

Auction proceeds 1♦ (P) 1♠ (2♣); then

X = diamond rebid
2♦ = heart reverse
2♥ = "good" spade raise
2♠ = "lesser" raise

This is a simple reorganizing of the traditional Support Double responses, but it creates transfer suit(s). In this sequence, you might make "good" raise = 4-trumps and "lesser" raise = 3 trumps.

For sequences that force the raise to the 3+ level, you use the same structure but redefine "good" and "lesser". Auction proceeds, say, 1♣ (1♥) 1♠ (3♥); then

X = "good" raise
3♠ = minimum raise

You might defined "good" here as, say, 14+ with 4 trumps, so partner knows you are stronger than a courtesy raise. You might even define "good" = unlimited, and continue to describe your hand after partner "rejects" your transfer invitation with a simple return to 3♠.

Another example 1♣ (2♦) 2♠ (3♦); then

X = heart reverse
3♥ = good raise
3♠ = minimum raise

Compared to standard Support X, you sometimes gain a transfer into a suit or two (depends on the suits involved, see the 2nd example). That transfer opportunity is fabulous. And you can use the same structure at higher levels.

You can use the structure even if you don't like Support X ... in the 1st example "good" = 14+ (even unlimited) with 4 trumps, and "lesser" raise = minimum 4 trumps support.

There is a disadvantage. In the 1st example, the 3-trump raise is 2♠. Using standard Support Double, the 3-trump raise is X, which gives the partnership more bidding space to investigate a better contract.

[johnu]

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 08:50, said:

Well, it's through 2♠

1x (pass) 1♠ (2♠) (regardless of what it is)
dbl = support

Ok ok just being picky

whereagles, on 2014-September-08, 10:51, said:

I'm not so sure

1x-pass-1y-2y
dbl = support

is a useless bid.


First of all, 2y may be artificial (I've seen it being played as some type of 6-4). In this case dbl=supp digs up 5-3 fits for free.


Also, if 2y is natural, dbl warns of suit breaking 3145/3046/3055. If you play dbl = general take out and 2y is passed to pard, he may be weary to dbl with JTxx in suit y. If dbl = supp, it's easier for him to diagnose the misfit. Of course, this isn't error-proof... opener may have say AQ in suit y and may simply want to dbl for penalties.


Well, anyways, you can play it the way you prefer.

If the 2♠ overcall is natural, I don't understand the point of a support double. What is partner supposed to do? Certainly not bid 3♠, so either convert to a penalty double or try to find a home at the 3 level when doubler may just have a flat minimum hand with 3 spades. Maybe you would only do this with a specific range and pattern but nobody has mentioned any agreements about this.

[whereagles]

Double as support warns that spades break 3-0-4-6 (or thereabouts). Thus both players know the hand is a likely misfit and will act accordingly. That's the point.


Obviously, you can play it some other way if you prefer. I'm not claiming this is optimal.