[beatrix45]

Stephen Tu, on 2014-October-03, 00:35, said:

In my understanding, if playing serious 3nt, then 4♦ does *not* show extras at all, it's a practically mandatory courtesy cue in case South has significant extras. 4♠ would only be bid with absolute garbage. So South with a minimum should not cue in return since opener's could easily be on something like AKxxx Qxx Axxx x . IMO 100% North if serious 3nt is in effect, what the hell kind of hand are you waiting to use it for?

Well, North has a clear serious 3NT. The issue is what differentiates 4♠ versus 4♦? Personally, I still think the cue bid of 4♦ has to show some extras besides a ♦ control.

[aguahombre]

beatrix45, on 2014-October-04, 01:13, said:

Well, North has a clear serious 3NT. The issue is what differentiates 4♠ versus 4♦? Personally, I still think the cue bid of 4♦ has to show some extras besides a ♦ control.

Stephen Tu, above, gave one typical example: AKXX QXX AXXX X is plenty for a non-serious courtesy Cue. It does not show extras, just a nice reasonably solid 1-bid which would have excepted a game invite had Responder merely invited --- and is willing to cooperate for slam if Responder has more than mere game interest. Stephen's example is miles below what North actually has.

IMO, the difference between 4S vs a NS Cue is that 4S shows a hand which would have declined a LR game invite. Others might have a higher standard for NS.

[allesfein]

OMG! SIMPLE INTERMEDIATE PLAY: Partners agreed upon a suit in this auction; ANY subsequent non-game bid shows slam interest. North's 4♦ shows the ♦A, South MUST bid 4♥ showing the ace!

[aguahombre]

allesfein, on 2014-October-05, 06:27, said:

OMG! SIMPLE INTERMEDIATE PLAY: Partners agreed upon a suit in this auction; ANY subsequent non-game bid shows slam interest. North's 4♦ shows the ♦A, South MUST bid 4♥ showing the ace!

Perhaps you need to slow down on the omg's and read some of the posts. When strain has been set, and game is committed, yet both hands are unlimited, there is more to the matter than your pronouncement.

[steve2005]

If N bids serious 3N auction bids itself 4♣-4♦-4♥-4N-5♠-6♠

[the hog]

beatrix45, on 2014-October-04, 01:13, said:

Well, North has a clear serious 3NT. The issue is what differentiates 4♠ versus 4♦? Personally, I still think the cue bid of 4♦ has to show some extras besides a ♦ control.

No it does not. That is the WHOLE purpose of playing serious/non-serious.

[beatrix45]

the hog, on 2014-October-05, 19:24, said:

No it does not. That is the WHOLE purpose of playing serious/non-serious.

We have accidently stumbled upon a "serious" issue. How mechanical can you make cue bidding just because you play 2/1 with serious/nonserious 3NT? The hand in question could not be a better minimum for slam - two bullets and significant trump fillers. Would a 4♥ cue bid made en passant stampede partner into an ill advised slam investigation? I don't think it should. Of course, I don't think a 4♦ cue bid should be mechanical either.

One and all are welcome to join us in our weekly Wednesday afternoon 10 cent Chicago event. Cash only.

[johnu]

kenrexford, on 2014-October-02, 10:55, said:

I find it rather shocking that anyone would try playing canapé systems. I am very much against canapé, as I cannot imagine how it works.