[kuhchung]

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Partner leads DQ. Yes yes you don't play these defensive methods in the bidding but here you are.

I always look at these diagrams wrong somehow, so I'll just point out that you sit in 3rd seat, after dummy.

[helene_t]

When I get in with a diamond I play a club

[gszes]

Given the bidding p expects me to have 4 if not 5 diamonds so it is in our best interests for me to signal where I have side stuff (if any) at trick 1. I will play the dia 8 hoping p can read that as my lowest dia suggesting something in clubs. If I happen to get in later with a dia I would make a switch to the spade J hoping p has the AQT of spades.

[PhantomSac]

I assume the question is whether to overtake the diamond to ensure we get in when partner has stiff Q of diamonds.

The obvious type of layout where this is necessary means declarer has 3 spades and is going to pitch one on the long diamond. For example Kxx Jxxx AJx QJx. The problem with this kind of layout is that partner has shown a 1 suiter on AQTx xx Q Axxxxx which seems silly. Also they superaccepted with a 4333 which is somewhat possible I guess since it's a competitive auction. I thought about maybe partner being 7-4 and declarer having 5 hearts, that makes showing a 1 suiter more attractive and superaccepting more attractive, however we asked partner to compete and he would have bid 4C with those hands.

It seems like declarer must have 4 spades since partner shouldn't have 4 of them. I then considered if maybe it was necessary to overtake when declarer has FOUR spades in order to prevent a strip and endplay when partner has exactly AQ8 of spades. E.g. declarer has KTxx Jxxx AJx Qx. If duck the diamond declarer ducks. Partner plays a trump and declarer can easily arrange to ruff 2 clubs and lead a spade to the ten. If we overtake the diamond it seems like declarer can just do the same thing quite easily so it doesn't help.

That being said I'm having a hard time coming up with reasonable examples of overtaking the diamond ever costing, just when partner has led the Q from Qx, stuff like declarer having Kxxx Jxxx AJ QJx. That gives a pretty bad 3H bid and a pretty weird lead (trump seems normal).

So ya I dunno, I would probably overtake but it doesn't seem like it should matter unless partner (and the opp) made a weird bid or a weird lead.

[Mbodell]

PhantomSac, on 2015-March-04, 14:34, said:

I assume the question is whether to overtake the diamond to ensure we get in when partner has stiff Q of diamonds.

The obvious type of layout where this is necessary means declarer has 3 spades and is going to pitch one on the long diamond. For example Kxx Jxxx AJx QJx. The problem with this kind of layout is that partner has shown a 1 suiter on AQTx xx Q Axxxxx which seems silly. Also they superaccepted with a 4333 which is somewhat possible I guess since it's a competitive auction. I thought about maybe partner being 7-4 and declarer having 5 hearts, that makes showing a 1 suiter more attractive and superaccepting more attractive, however we asked partner to compete and he would have bid 4C with those hands.

It seems like declarer must have 4 spades since partner shouldn't have 4 of them. I then considered if maybe it was necessary to overtake when declarer has FOUR spades in order to prevent a strip and endplay when partner has exactly AQ8 of spades. E.g. declarer has KTxx Jxxx AJx Qx. If duck the diamond declarer ducks. Partner plays a trump and declarer can easily arrange to ruff 2 clubs and lead a spade to the ten. If we overtake the diamond it seems like declarer can just do the same thing quite easily so it doesn't help.

That being said I'm having a hard time coming up with reasonable examples of overtaking the diamond ever costing, just when partner has led the Q from Qx, stuff like declarer having Kxxx Jxxx AJ QJx. That gives a pretty bad 3H bid and a pretty weird lead (trump seems normal).

So ya I dunno, I would probably overtake but it doesn't seem like it should matter unless partner (and the opp) made a weird bid or a weird lead.

I assume you didn't look up the hands, but your first construction is exactly right.

[PhantomSac]

Mbodell, on 2015-March-05, 00:58, said:

I assume you didn't look up the hands, but your first construction is exactly right.

Heh, well it is one of the only layouts that enables us to beat it. If we are defending in reality they are basically always making with hearts 2-2 and diamonds somewhat friendly. We need to take 3 spades and 1 diamond... It is more like a textbook study to find a layout where we can beat it, the first one is the most obvious but I still don't understand showing 1 suited clubs instead of C+another with that kind of hand.

Since this was posted I would have guessed that partner had either AQTx of spades and stiff Q of diamonds and the CA (overtake) or Qx of diamonds and AQT of spades and the CA (don't overtake). Both are obviously very unlikely but when posted as a problem it must be one or the other. Neither makes a lot of sense to me but in real life those are often the kinds of decisions you have to make; I don't think either of these things should be happening so which is more likely?

[kuhchung]

Thankfully I don't have to admit to playing the defensive methods, which unfortunately means I have to own up bidding the superaccept on a 4333 12 count. Trade-offs, am I right?

[Mbodell]

kuhchung, on 2015-March-05, 11:55, said:

Thankfully I don't have to admit to playing the defensive methods, which unfortunately means I have to own up bidding the superaccept on a 4333 12 count. Trade-offs, am I right?

I held the declarer hand at another table (rotated from OP) and had to decide to compete or not after (P)-1nt(10-12)-(P)-2♣(keri: puppet to 2♦, often some game force or game invite - not necessarily about diamonds - or else a diamond sign off)-(P)-2♦(forced)-3♣ natural. Given I had a 12 count (a max) and AJx of diamonds (so not terrible if it is a diamond signoff) I was tempted to compete. But I decided that 4333 and QJx of clubs suggested pass. So we defended 3♣ and lost 6.8 imps for -110 when half the field was in 4♥ making. Interesting enough the people in 3♥ and 2♥ took only 8 tricks, but 4 of the 5 in 4♥ took 10 tricks. Partner was originally planning on inviting in hearts (2♥ over 2♦) but with only a 9 count didn't like forcing at the 3 level.

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[kuhchung]

I think 4H by E on the DQ lead is a lot easier than anything by west despite the fact that no other declarer actually held up when north didn't overtake the diamond

[helene_t]

Heh, I though since p showed a "one-suiter" declarer would have four spades so he can't make it by establishing diamonds for a single spade discard.